Plus/Minus screwdrivers | on ElectriciansForums

Discuss Plus/Minus screwdrivers in the Electrical Tools and Products area at ElectriciansForums.net

M

Mark Haywood

Hello All
I am interested to know which is more common for the UK market PZ or Ph on the plus minus screws, other than RCB & MCBO have you come across any other needs for this type of screwdriver tip. Thanks
 
Most electrical screw terminals in distribution and consumer units are plus/minus (modulo) heads these days mate, the correct screwdriver tip certainly makes tightening/untightening easier. PK is most common in equipment from europe, whilst PH is most common in equipment from the USA, equipment from the rest of the world can be either or neither.
 
From a manufacturers perspective we might be able to help
PZ are by far the most popular tip types in the UK. Despite the fact that +/- screw head types have become increasingly popular, it is common practice to use a PH, PZ or slotted screwdriver to tighten them (with varying degrees of success).
The best way is to use the perfectly adapted 'Modulo' +/- type driver, but it is critical that you choose the correct size driver for the screw head.
Why? - The hybrid slotted x cross head design means that if you use a small driver on a big screw, the whole of the torque applied is transmitted through about 10% of the slotted blade ends - and they will break
CK Tools
 
i don't think theres a difference between a +/- PZ and a +/- PH to be honest. i have had a wera +/- and a ÂŁ4 (can't remember the brand but it's lasting well) cheapie from the wholesalers and i think they were both just PH, they don't have the smaller little things on that PZ ones do. anyway, the wera one snapped after 2 weeks, just like the wera PZ1 i have, so don't buy a wera one.
they are good though for CU's, although i don't see why we need yet another type of screw head. wheres it gonna end? before long we'll all have a van full of screwdrivers for all the different of screw heads they keep inventing
 
From a manufacturers perspective we might be able to help
PZ are by far the most popular tip types in the UK. Despite the fact that +/- screw head types have become increasingly popular, it is common practice to use a PH, PZ or slotted screwdriver to tighten them (with varying degrees of success).
The best way is to use the perfectly adapted 'Modulo' +/- type driver, but it is critical that you choose the correct size driver for the screw head.
Why? - The hybrid slotted x cross head design means that if you use a small driver on a big screw, the whole of the torque applied is transmitted through about 10% of the slotted blade ends - and they will break
CK Tools

Very interesting, but why is it that when I try to use CK Modulo screwdrivers on Wylex RCBOs, the red plastic on the screwdriver shaft binds in the deep hole in the RCBO before the carefully crafted screwdriver tip reaches the screw head rendering the screwdriver virtually useless.

And a question for all the MCB / RCBO / RCD / Main Switch manufacturers out there: If you wanted a screw that could take some torque why did you not simply use hexagon socked grubb screws that have been successfully used for such applications in the engineering field for years instead of these b a stardised heads that are of use to neither man nor beast???
 
OK - Does anyone want the history of why PZ and PH came to be?
and why you all now suffer the box full of drivers
 
OK - Does anyone want the history of why PZ and PH came to be?
and why you all now suffer the box full of drivers

I'm originally from the engineering trade and know all about the saga of engineering screw threads - Whitworth BSW, BSF, BA, UNC, UNF, then all the metric carp ........ so if the story of how PZ and PH came to be, we could be in for a long night !! ;)

but ... since I'm a masochistic insomniac, I would be interested to hear your story. :)
 
Henry Ford! - PH were developed to cam out before torque adjustable production drivers were invented, they 'twisted out' at full torque to stop broken screws and since, unlike slotted screwdrivers they could not slip out sideways, they would not damage black paintwork.
PZ were developed by the same company to prevent cam out once torque set drivers were available. Nice thinking
 
Henry Ford! - PH were developed to cam out before torque adjustable production drivers were invented, they 'twisted out' at full torque to stop broken screws and since, unlike slotted screwdrivers they could not slip out sideways, they would not damage black paintwork.
PZ were developed by the same company to prevent cam out once torque set drivers were available. Nice thinking

Thanks for that Mark. :)

I'm an aad gadgee the wrong side of 60 years old, retired & I've just learned something new !!!

Now can you tell me why your Modulo screwdrivers bind in the deep holes in Wylex RCBOs?? :tongue3:
 
Sorry but that's factually incorrect, neither the PH or PZ drive systems have anything to do with Henry Ford. In fact Henry Ford was an opponent of the Phillips (PH) system, resisting its use on his production lines for nearly a decade. It was another Henry and his company that we must thank for the worlds most popular drive system and for the improvement spin-offs Posidriv (PZ), Superdriv and Mortorq.

Born in Portland, Oregon, Henry F. Phillips purchased the rights to a socket screw in the 1920s and redesigned the screw with a cruciform recess. The significance of his original design, the “crosshead” or early Phillips screw lies in its self-centring property. Unlike a traditional slot screw which required a person to simultaneously centre the screw in its hole, steady the screwdriver in the slot and then use the screwdriver to turn the screw, the Phillips screw’s cruciform head sat firmly on the screwdriver with no need to centre the screw in the hole.

Henry F. Phillips saw that there was need on the blossoming production lines of American automobile industry for some type of torque limiting driver or fastener system. He purposely re-designed his cruciform screw drive to cam out when the screw stalled, to prevent the fastener damaging the work or the head, instead damaging the driver. Damage on the production lines was caused by the relative difficulty in building torque limiting into the early drivers. Phillips patented this invention, an improved version of a deep socket with a cruciform, today known as the Phillips Screw.

Over the next few years, Phillips filed several patents for this design and formed the Phillips Screw Company. Phillips initially encountered difficulty in convincing manufacturers to produce his new screw. He persisted and finally persuaded the American Screw Company to license and manufacture his innovation. American Screw convinced General Motors to test Phillips screws on its assembly line, and GM used the new fastener to manufacture its 1936 Cadillac. It helped speed production, and was rapidly adopted by other Detroit car makers. By 1940, 85% of the screw manufacturing companies had secured a license from Phillips to produce his design.

Phillips drivers have an intentional angle on the flanks and rounded corners so they will cam out of the slot before a power tool will twist off the screw head, whereas the Pozidriv screws and drivers have straight sided flanks for increased torque and resistance to cam-out. The Pozidriv screwdriver and screws are also visually distinguishable from Phillips by the second set of radial indentations set 45 degrees from the cross recess. The manufacturing process for Pozidriv screwdrivers is slightly more complex. The Phillips driver has four simple slots cut out of it, whereas in the Pozidriv each slot is the result of two machining processes at right angles. The result of this is that the arms of the cross are parallel-sided with the Pozidriv, and tapered with the Phillips. This design is intended to decrease the likelihood that the Pozidriv screwdriver will slip out, provide a greater driving surface, and decrease wear.

The chief disadvantage of Pozidriv screws is that they are visually quite similar to Phillips, thus many people are unaware of the difference or do not own the correct drivers for them, and use incorrect screwdrivers. This results in difficulty with removing the screw due to damage to the recess, rendering any subsequent use of a correct screwdriver unsatisfactory. Phillips screwdrivers will fit in and turn Pozidriv screws, but will cam out if enough torque is applied, potentially damaging the screw head. The drive wings on a Pozidriv screwdriver will not fit a Phillips screw correctly, and are likely to slip or tear out the screw head.
 
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