S
W
wstevew
He visited this morning and has agreed to rectify most of the Issues with arrays. Including replacing broken tiles and the tiles ground out. He called the scaffold company and put the removal on hold for another week to allow me to get the ridge tiles re-bedded and chimney.
The chimney is now safe but not fixed, temp fix.
I had a roofing company come out and quote to replace the shattered ridge tile (it was originally cracked and is now completely shattered) and re-bed all the remaining ridge tiles. He is going to do a temporary fix on the broken ridge tile tomorrow He has suggested he do his work after they complete so it cant be messed up.
I called this afternoon to ask when they were comming back, but was unable to get through as I was told he was in a meeting.
The chimney is now safe but not fixed, temp fix.
I had a roofing company come out and quote to replace the shattered ridge tile (it was originally cracked and is now completely shattered) and re-bed all the remaining ridge tiles. He is going to do a temporary fix on the broken ridge tile tomorrow He has suggested he do his work after they complete so it cant be messed up.
I called this afternoon to ask when they were comming back, but was unable to get through as I was told he was in a meeting.
P
provr6
Feel for you mate, but hang in there. At least you are all registered and the installer is rectifying it albeit in an unorganised way. Anyone can do a less than perfect job, but its how they handle it afterwards.
S
sedgy34
how does one know movement has occured as they could have been fitted like that.
S
sedgy34
wow you sit next to your mrs lol
S
sedgy34
M
moggy1968
I thought I was doing time!
W
wstevew
Aren't we all. LOL
They are comming out again on Monday to sort it out. I think he said it would be a different installer.
They are comming out again on Monday to sort it out. I think he said it would be a different installer.
E
Earthstore
Is it sorted, or have they pulled down your phone line to stop you posting on here?
W
wstevew
They are still on the roof. Post later
W
wstevew
I'm beginning to wonder.
S
SRE
My breath is baited!!
W
wstevew
Times approx.
07:45 arrived and explained he was off to get some tiles.
10:50
I get a call he is at a reclamation yard in Chelmsford, They don't make the same tiles any more, there is a v2 of the tile but the nibs that hold on to the batten are in a different place, if they used them they would have to grind off the nibs and drill and screw them to fit them. He found some of the same tile in a different lighter colour and can use them, he will remove tiles under the array to replace broken tiles and put the ones of the wrong colour under the array.
12:50 arrives with tiles (the lighter colour ones) he explains again he will put them under the panels and use the ones he removes where they can be seen.
13:00 I went through all the problems with him, showed him the pics Earthstore posted of the brackets ground out "Make them look as close as possible to this please". I had only taken the morning off so I had to go to work.
16:15 Im at work, feed in stopped, Inverter still on, they disconnected DC on the roof (not sure if that is bad or not).
17:30 I arrive home wondering what I am going to find. All panels off on their side on the scaffold, rails still on the roof, they are moving tiles. I go in and turn off the AC Isolator.
So I go up the ladder and...
They had replaced the broken gutter bracket.
He explained to me that lots of tiles have had the grooved side overlap bit (not sure what that is called) broken off and far enough to be past the tile overlap, so they had to remove them and replace with the lighter ones. In total they removed roughly 30 ish tiles including some the badly ground ones. worst thing is this was not that obvious they were broken, he said that some of them had been like that a while and others looked more freshly broken.
some of them badly ground tiles were so bad he showed me by tapping his drill driver on the top and it made a hole and went through. so you guys were spot on about them taking out too much.
He had to leave a few of the ground out tiles that were not cut close to the brackets but were the best of them to use tiles elsewhere to keep things watertight due to the broken overlaps.
At this point he said he is really sorry but it looks like it will be a late one, do I mind. A good sign because he was more interested about getting it done right than leaving.
They got tiles moved from under the array to replace broken ones and badly ground ones sorted out the wonky bracket (there was brick from a wall next to the joist the bracket was resting on causing it to lay sideways, he showed me and adjusted it straight).
While up there I took a look at the rails (rails and brackets are Wuerth, brackets are 2 piece a plate the bracket bolts on to) I asked him about the joins on the rails some of the joining pieces were exposed 2.5 to 3 inches. He said no should only see 10mm of joining piece and he is going to replace sections of rail which he did. I had a look before the panels went back on and all the rail joins were butted up to the rivet in the joining piece.
I went back up as they were refitting the west array and asked them to please keep the cables off the roof, he said its difficult when landscape and but done it as he went along the roof.
After refitting all the panels clamps etc. They cleaned up the scaffold, washed both arrays to get all the grindings/dirt off them, cleaned off the windowsil's below to get all the dust off. took away the broken tiles.
22:20 They Leave
I think it is better from what I have seen, although dark by the time it is all back together. The tiles that are re-ground look to be closer to the sides of the brackets. a few of them are as they were (The better ones of the bunch) and I think this is because they ran out of tiles due to replacing so many.
I cant say if everything is working OK as by the time it is all back together it is dark.
Overall they seemed to have much more care and attention to what they were doing, and worked a long day.
Looking back at last weeks shenanigans
Monday they started about 7:30 and finished around 14:15 to move the rails
Tuesday they removed the panels ground the tiles and refitted between 07:30 to 9:30
07:45 arrived and explained he was off to get some tiles.
10:50
I get a call he is at a reclamation yard in Chelmsford, They don't make the same tiles any more, there is a v2 of the tile but the nibs that hold on to the batten are in a different place, if they used them they would have to grind off the nibs and drill and screw them to fit them. He found some of the same tile in a different lighter colour and can use them, he will remove tiles under the array to replace broken tiles and put the ones of the wrong colour under the array.
12:50 arrives with tiles (the lighter colour ones) he explains again he will put them under the panels and use the ones he removes where they can be seen.
13:00 I went through all the problems with him, showed him the pics Earthstore posted of the brackets ground out "Make them look as close as possible to this please". I had only taken the morning off so I had to go to work.
16:15 Im at work, feed in stopped, Inverter still on, they disconnected DC on the roof (not sure if that is bad or not).
17:30 I arrive home wondering what I am going to find. All panels off on their side on the scaffold, rails still on the roof, they are moving tiles. I go in and turn off the AC Isolator.
So I go up the ladder and...
They had replaced the broken gutter bracket.
He explained to me that lots of tiles have had the grooved side overlap bit (not sure what that is called) broken off and far enough to be past the tile overlap, so they had to remove them and replace with the lighter ones. In total they removed roughly 30 ish tiles including some the badly ground ones. worst thing is this was not that obvious they were broken, he said that some of them had been like that a while and others looked more freshly broken.
some of them badly ground tiles were so bad he showed me by tapping his drill driver on the top and it made a hole and went through. so you guys were spot on about them taking out too much.
He had to leave a few of the ground out tiles that were not cut close to the brackets but were the best of them to use tiles elsewhere to keep things watertight due to the broken overlaps.
At this point he said he is really sorry but it looks like it will be a late one, do I mind. A good sign because he was more interested about getting it done right than leaving.
They got tiles moved from under the array to replace broken ones and badly ground ones sorted out the wonky bracket (there was brick from a wall next to the joist the bracket was resting on causing it to lay sideways, he showed me and adjusted it straight).
While up there I took a look at the rails (rails and brackets are Wuerth, brackets are 2 piece a plate the bracket bolts on to) I asked him about the joins on the rails some of the joining pieces were exposed 2.5 to 3 inches. He said no should only see 10mm of joining piece and he is going to replace sections of rail which he did. I had a look before the panels went back on and all the rail joins were butted up to the rivet in the joining piece.
I went back up as they were refitting the west array and asked them to please keep the cables off the roof, he said its difficult when landscape and but done it as he went along the roof.
After refitting all the panels clamps etc. They cleaned up the scaffold, washed both arrays to get all the grindings/dirt off them, cleaned off the windowsil's below to get all the dust off. took away the broken tiles.
22:20 They Leave
I think it is better from what I have seen, although dark by the time it is all back together. The tiles that are re-ground look to be closer to the sides of the brackets. a few of them are as they were (The better ones of the bunch) and I think this is because they ran out of tiles due to replacing so many.
I cant say if everything is working OK as by the time it is all back together it is dark.
Overall they seemed to have much more care and attention to what they were doing, and worked a long day.
Looking back at last weeks shenanigans
Monday they started about 7:30 and finished around 14:15 to move the rails
Tuesday they removed the panels ground the tiles and refitted between 07:30 to 9:30
W
wstevew
Still waiting for a verdict as to bonding the array frame.
it's really not necessary in the vast majority of cases, so maybe just keep an eye on the system for a bit too see if the codes you were getting are actually having any affect.
glad to see its been done properly now, hopefully this guy will now be reporting back to the company how badly the other team had bodged it, and they might get some training on how to do it properly. I dread to think how many other jobs they've bodged in this way, but if I were running that company I'd be sending this guy back to check a percentage of their work to see if this is a one off or not.
S
sedgy34
only required on pme with transformerless inverters, or any with velux windows in roof
Actually, as far as the current guidelines dictate, all installs with TL inverters need bonding to the frame regardless of the incoming arrangment. The issue with PME is that you are required to install to an earth rod.
But as Gavin has pointed out previously, seeing as the guidelines are changing on this some bodies are allowed people to work to the upcoming guidance.
The reason why I think bonding in this instance would be a good idea is that SMA themselves have suggested that this could cure the problem that the OP has been having. If I were the installer then I'd have definitely done it.
M
moggy1968
thats amoot point solarcity
On my inspection my assessor told me my system didn't need bonding (fronius IGTL inverter)
On my inspection my assessor told me my system didn't need bonding (fronius IGTL inverter)
Fair enough. But he would need to be going by the upcoming guidance to say so as the existing guidance says systems with TL inverters must be bonded.
S
sedgy34
if the array isnt accesible it dont need bonding as its classed as floating any works to be done etc the system would be isolated so there you go guys.
could fit transformered inverters then you have voltage seperation
could fit transformered inverters then you have voltage seperation
M
moggy1968
that was on existing guidence
Yet this is contrary to the current Dti guide.
- - - Updated - - -
True, but we are still working to existing guidance, right
W
wstevew
Thread takes off again ;-)
Back to topic. Solarcity is right SMA recommended bonding the frame to fix the problem.
I'm not convinced it will fix it either. Neither is my supplier and that is why I believe they are supposedly in contact with SMA. But if the manufacturer insists their TL inverters should be bonded then perhaps it should.
Back to topic. Solarcity is right SMA recommended bonding the frame to fix the problem.
I'm not convinced it will fix it either. Neither is my supplier and that is why I believe they are supposedly in contact with SMA. But if the manufacturer insists their TL inverters should be bonded then perhaps it should.
M
moggy1968
yep, there is that cover all as discussed before, if the manufacturer says so then so be it!
W
wstevew
solar 19-06-2012 pictures by wstevew - Photobucket
Some photo's now, A few of the badly ground out tiles were left due to not having enough tiles having to replace.
Some photo's now, A few of the badly ground out tiles were left due to not having enough tiles having to replace.
E
Earthstore
That looks better, no 7 still looks a little thin, but as you say they were short of tiles, so is the mounting side of things ok with you?
As to the bonding/earthing of the array, if SMA say that is what is needed, why don't they just do it, if it cures the problem then great, but if you do not do it and the problem reoccurs, SMA will ask why it has not been bonded.
It will not take them long or cost them much, so I can not understand why they do not do it?
As to the bonding/earthing of the array, if SMA say that is what is needed, why don't they just do it, if it cures the problem then great, but if you do not do it and the problem reoccurs, SMA will ask why it has not been bonded.
It will not take them long or cost them much, so I can not understand why they do not do it?
W
wstevew
I got to see all the rails/brackets before the panels went on, the brackets are 2 piece, there is an aluminium plate that is screwed to the joist then the bracket is attached by a bolt. he sorted all the rails so all joins were butted up to the rivets. all the rails are even and clamps look attached well.
Originally I emailed SMA asking why would I get the event 601. Their reply suggested they should bond the frame and they should check with the frame manufacturer for appropriate materials. I forwarded this to them.
Then when they come out last week he said he was going to bond to the TWE in the AC Isolator and I told him not too as that was wrong. Then they went and brought some 4mm earth cable and started to run that, I told them to check with their technical man as I said I thought the cable was too thin. Then they started saying that there was no regs to say it had to be bonded and stopped.
I said regulation or not, If the manufacturer says it should be bonded then they perhaps they should. Next time I asked I was told their technical guy was going to call me once he had spoken to SMA, I still have heard nothing back.
I guess they want to know why SMA say it should be bonded, and how it will fix the problem.
"Gavin A" has his suspicions that it could be related to capacitor charge/discharge on the inverter. It happens approx 15 min before/after feed in. It doesn't happen every day so It could be related to the amount light the panels are exposed to before/after feed in.
Originally I emailed SMA asking why would I get the event 601. Their reply suggested they should bond the frame and they should check with the frame manufacturer for appropriate materials. I forwarded this to them.
Then when they come out last week he said he was going to bond to the TWE in the AC Isolator and I told him not too as that was wrong. Then they went and brought some 4mm earth cable and started to run that, I told them to check with their technical man as I said I thought the cable was too thin. Then they started saying that there was no regs to say it had to be bonded and stopped.
I said regulation or not, If the manufacturer says it should be bonded then they perhaps they should. Next time I asked I was told their technical guy was going to call me once he had spoken to SMA, I still have heard nothing back.
I guess they want to know why SMA say it should be bonded, and how it will fix the problem.
"Gavin A" has his suspicions that it could be related to capacitor charge/discharge on the inverter. It happens approx 15 min before/after feed in. It doesn't happen every day so It could be related to the amount light the panels are exposed to before/after feed in.
another possibility is increased capacitance from the panels, as they get damp with dew.
I'm not really sure about the potential mechanism for this getting through to the grid feed, but bonding the frame would potentially give this a route to earth other than via the inverter.
It's been a while since I looked into this though, and it's stretching the boundaries of what I'm really trained for tbh - Bruce B would probably be a good bet on this, or any other electrical engineer types.
If it's this, then it probably would explain SMA's advice.
I'm not really sure about the potential mechanism for this getting through to the grid feed, but bonding the frame would potentially give this a route to earth other than via the inverter.
It's been a while since I looked into this though, and it's stretching the boundaries of what I'm really trained for tbh - Bruce B would probably be a good bet on this, or any other electrical engineer types.
If it's this, then it probably would explain SMA's advice.
Don't mind me while I bump some threads in the solar PV forum. If they're not current or applicable topics, just ignore the threads; they'll drop off the page. If they are, feel free to chip in and chat solar stuff in the solar panels forum.
Similar threads
OFFICIAL SPONSORS
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc
Advert
Thread Information
Thread Tags
Advert
Thread statistics
Advert
TrueNAS JBOD Storage Server
-
-
Understanding TrueNAS JBOD Servers: A Comprehensive Guide- Started by Dan
- Replies: 8
-
