Potterton Suprima HE 80 no lights at all...

[RBrandon]

Hello
i have a potterton suprima he 80 boiler which was fitted about 2005. We have had loads of issues with it. Two fans. Pressure switches etc and most recently a new pub was fitted by British Gas. That was about 5 weeks ago. In the last week we have come to use the heating only to see that all lights are off with apparently no power therefore to the boiler. There was still power to the main switches for hot water and heating but boiler was in effect dead. Called out BG and before they arrived the boiler came back to life on its own without me doing anything. They then said they could not test as it was working and to call if it went again. Well one week later the same thing happened. Rads were cooling down so checked the boiler and all lights off again. Rang BG and got an appointment for tomorrow am. Guess what boiler just come back on again on its own. This is nuts, can anyone suggest anything. By the way that should have read new PCB was fitted not pub but could not go back and change it.
Any help appreciated. Thanks

 

[puddle]

I do not think it is the boiler

I would go for syncron motor in the heating motorised valve is on its way out,or valve sticking and not opening correctly,thus not sending power to boiler for it's operation

 

[RBrandon]

I do not think it is the boiler

I would go for syncron motor in the heating motorised valve is on its way out,or valve sticking and not opening correctly,thus not sending power to boiler for it's operation

Thanks for the quick reply. I take it that is in the thermostat control? This was also replaced by BG last year so will get them to look at this tomorrow.

Thanks again

Richard

 

[puddle]

Thanks for the quick reply. I take it that is in the thermostat control? This was also replaced by BG last year so will get them to look at this tomorrow.

Thanks again

Richard

No the thermostat controls the valve in question

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello RBrandon",

I don`t want to confuse You with this but I have been Informed by some of the Members on here that Heating Programmers Can and Do cause Central Heating Systems to come on when the Programmer is in an OFF Setting period and then remain `On` for quite long / indeterminate periods of time - without any indication at all that the Programmer has malfunctioned / has `Energised` the Heating System.

No Displayed `On` etc. on the Programmer - which sometimes then goes back to seemingly `Working O.K.` - before then Malfunctioning again.

Having been told that this happens on a regular basis - I ask the Extremely Knowledgeable Members on here - Is it possible that this `No Power at the Boiler` situation is caused by a Faulty Programmer ?

I.E. that when the Heating System is supposed to be `ON` Constant - Or `ON` from the Programmer Time Setting that it is NOT supplying the Timed / Switched Live to the Heating System Wiring / Controls / Boiler ?


Have You had Hot Water ? - I think that You mentioned that the Boiler came On a couple of times - `Unexpectedly` - could this have been on the Programmer Settings for Hot Water ?


Just in case that You have recently turned off the Electrical Supply to the Heating System while this Fault has been happening:

Have You tried setting the Programmer to Hot Water Only ?

If You have been using an Electrical Immersion Heater for Hot Water [in the Cylinder] - You should Draw Off some of the Hot Water from the Cylinder before setting the Programmer to Hot Water Only.

Although the Heating Coil of the Cylinder will be below an Immersion Heater Element - depending where the Cylinder Thermostat is fixed onto the Cylinder - it could be `Satisfied` by Hot Water heated by an Immersion Heater.


If You have Two Zone Valves and Setting the Programmer to Hot Water Only - Constant - does NOT energise the Boiler - it will NOT be a Faulty Heating Zone Valve - Because the Hot Water Zone Valve operating should energise the Boiler - even if the Heating does not work.


Have You got Two Zone Valves [Motorised Valves] or just One `3 Port Zone Valve` - controlling the Heating and Hot Water Cylinder ?


Please don`t be offended but I wondered whether the periods when the Boiler operates / Display Lights Illuminate might have been because of perhaps a Twice Daily Heating & Hot Water Setting on the Programmer ?

If there is an Intermittent Fault on the Heating Zone Valve which means that a Switched Live Electrical Supply is not always being `Sent` to the Boiler - when the Hot Water Zone Vale closes either because of the Cylinder Temperature reaching the setting on the Cylinder Thermostat - Or because the Hot Water Setting on the Programmer is `Off` - there would then be `No Demand` / No Switched Electrical Supply to the Boiler.

So - No Lights on the Boiler and No Operation of the Boiler.

The Intermittent nature of the Faulty Zone Valve - IF it is that - causes the Heating System to only work sometimes.


JUST FOR SAFETY PURPOSES:


The Potterton Suprima should have a Heat Dissipating Bypass - this means that the Pump Over-Run would be controlled from the Boiler - with the Pump being wired directly to dedicated terminals on the Boiler Electrical Terminal Block.

I mention this ONLY because I want other readers of this to be aware that this means there should be a Permanent Live Electrical Supply to the Boiler - in the case of these types of Boiler - `No Lights On` does NOT necessarily mean `NO Electrical Power to the Boiler`.

Again from Memory - and the Members on here can either verify this or state that it is Incorrect - the Permanent Live Electrical Supply to the Boiler does NOT Illuminate the `Mains On` Light - This Light is only `On` when the Switched Live from the Heating Controls supplys Power to energise the Boiler so that it can operate.

An example of the requirement to KNOW about `Safe Electrical Isolation` Methods.



I hope that I have not confused You more Richard - My Question about the Heating System Programmer is what I am hoping to see some answers about - whether an Intermittently Faulty Programmer could cause the `Symptoms` that Your Heating System / Boiler is displaying ? - and How Likely is that to be a plausible cause ?


Regards,


Chris - Heating Engineer

 

[RBrandon]

Chris

Thanks for your reply. The problem is that there is temporarily no power to the boiler as all lights are off. It then comes back on an hour later with no obvious reason. Can't be a fuse otherwise it would not come back on. It therefore has to be either faulty pcb or some fault in the wires between mains power and the boiler. BG guy spent a while checking for obvious loose connections etc. nothing showing. He is oing to fit a new pcb Wednesday and talk to potter ton direct to see if they know of this.

Lets see what happens after pcb fitted

Thanks again

Richard

 

[puddle]

Chris

Thanks for your reply. The problem is that there is temporarily no power to the boiler as all lights are off. It then comes back on an hour later with no obvious reason. Can't be a fuse otherwise it would not come back on. It therefore has to be either faulty pcb or some fault in the wires between mains power and the boiler. BG guy spent a while checking for obvious loose connections etc. nothing showing. He is oing to fit a new pcb Wednesday and talk to potter ton direct to see if they know of this.

Lets see what happens after pcb fitted

Thanks again

Richard

The motorised valve once in correct position sends power supply to the boiler,this would be the thing to check maybe as mentioned

 

[chris murphy]

Chris

Thanks for your reply. The problem is that there is temporarily no power to the boiler as all lights are off. It then comes back on an hour later with no obvious reason. Can't be a fuse otherwise it would not come back on. It therefore has to be either faulty pcb or some fault in the wires between mains power and the boiler. BG guy spent a while checking for obvious loose connections etc. nothing showing. He is oing to fit a new pcb Wednesday and talk to potter ton direct to see if they know of this.

Lets see what happens after pcb fitted

Thanks again

Richard

"Hello Richard",

My Entire Post was written to suggest things that Might be the cause of the `No Power to the Boiler` Problem - Everything that I wrote was about that being the situation.

Even if there is a System Wiring / Faulty Control Item - for example the Heating Zone Valve not switching Power to the Boiler - there should ALWAYS be the Permanent Live Supply that I mentioned in My Lengthy `Safety Statement` about that point.


I was hoping that You might have answered My Question about whether You have TWO or ONE Zone Valves on your Heating System - ? These Zone Valves / Motorised Valves usually have either a `Zinc Coloured` Box type Head - Or this `Box` can be made from a Plastic Material.

And - although You might think that My Question about whether You have tried Switching the Programmer to Hot Water Only - when the Cylinder would be `Requiring Heat` - is a ridiculous thing to Ask - You might think that it should be `Obvious` that You would have tried that - It is NOT - which is why I asked.

Although My Post was really `Too Long` - the Questions that I asked would Help Me and the Electricians on here to possibly `Narrow Down` what the cause of the Problem could be.

For example - puddle has stated a couple of times about the Heating Zone Valve malfunctioning and Intermittently NOT switching Power to the Boiler - I am in NO Way trying to Contradict puddle - BUT - IF You had answered My Question regarding whether You had Two or One Zone Valves - And had stated whether You had tried Your Heating Programmer on Hot Water Only - Set to Constant - We could have either confirmed or discounted some items from being the cause of the Problem.


This `Fit a New PCB` - has become almost a Joke in the Boiler Repair and Servicing Area of the Domestic Heating Industry - perhaps You will not `Suffer` Financially because of your Boiler Cover with British Gas - But usually when the `PCB is Faulty` GUESS is made and the PCB is changed - this then `Shows` another Fault - After the Installer realises that the PCB did NOT need changing !

This then requires either more Investigation or the replacement of another Part - Costing the Customer even more Money - and often the PCB did NOT need changing.


Richard - Please don`t take offence to this:


As I wrote My VERY Long Post to You - which as I type with only 2 Fingers took Me a Long Time - could You Please reply with the Answers to My Questions - To enable Me to regain My `reasoning` that I write My Advice / Questions on this Forum to TRY and actually Help People.

At present I feel that I wasted My Time writing the Post about the Problem with your Heating System / Boiler - ?


Obviously I hope that British Gas do solve the Problem for You - and that You will Post the details of what the Fault was on here for the People who responded to You to read.


Regards,


Chris


I am a bit disappointed that My Question to the Electrician Members about whether the Programmer could cause this Fault to occur has not received any Answers yet - Because of what I mentioned about Faulty Programmers on another Post I am Genuinely Interested in this.

 

[chris murphy]

The motorised valve once in correct position sends power supply to the boiler,this would be the thing to check maybe as mentioned

"Hello puddle",

Would You agree that IF there are TWO Zone Valves on this Heating System that even If the Heating Zone Valve has been Malfunctioning and NOT allowing Power to the Boiler at times - If the Programmer was Set to `Hot Water Only` - Constant - and the Cylinder was in the `Requiring Heat` state - that the Hot Water Zone Valve [and Cylinder Thermostat] would then send Power to the Boiler - ?


This point was one of the reasons that I asked Richard to let Us know whether there are TWO or ONE Zone Valves on His Heating System - and why I asked If He had tried Selecting Hot Water - Constant on His Programmer - when the Cylinder would be in a state of requiring Heat.


Regards,


Chris

 

[chris murphy]

I am NOT getting My Questions Answered by Richard - Now puddle has decided to Ignore a Question - I really have Wasted My Time on this ! !


Chris

 

[MarkieSparkie]

I am NOT getting My Questions Answered by Richard - Now puddle has decided to Ignore a Question - I really have Wasted My Time on this ! !


Chris

Don't get frustrated Chris. Unfortunately this often happens on technical forums, particularly when the OP doesn't get the succinct and simple solution he/she desperately wants. More often than not, when the OP provides vague or incomplete information we have to answer their question with a question and they either lose interest or just can be bothered to reply. That life on the forums mate.

 

[chris murphy]

Don't get frustrated Chris. Unfortunately this often happens on technical forums, particularly when the OP doesn't get the succinct and simple solution he/she desperately wants. More often than not, when the OP provides vague or incomplete information we have to answer their question with a question and they either lose interest or just can be bothered to reply. That life on the forums mate.

"Hello MarkieSparkie",


Thanks for your reply to Me - I really do know that this kind of behavior goes on all the time on all types of Forums - the reason that I wrote about how Richard had behaved was to TRY and get a response from Him.

I am imagining that IF He has read My Posts - as He will have received notification Emails from the Forum when any of Us responded to this Thread - He has probably simply Dismissed My comments as `Not worth replying to` !

Still He will be `Happy and Contented` that He has British Gas `Boiler Experts` to look after His Boiler Problem.

These Gentlemen [and Ladies ?] have the `Best Training available` in not only Gas Systems and Appliance Installation and Fault Finding - but also in Electrical Installation and Fault Finding - So they have obviously found the Boiler / Electrical Problem and rectified it - which in light of the Imminent `Bad weather` is VERY Lucky for Richard.


"Thanks again" for your comments - I hope that You are not too badly affected by the Forecasted Bad Weather / Snow in your part of the Country.


Regards,


Chris

 

[MarkieSparkie]

It's a balmy +2 degrees C here at the moment Chris, just light rain. One of the advantages of living by the sea.

 

[chris murphy]

It's a balmy +2 degrees C here at the moment Chris, just light rain. One of the advantages of living by the sea.

"Hello again MarkieSparkie",


I thought that I had seen on the TV Weather Forecasts the Bad Weather / Snow was coming across from the South West and sweeping right across the South Coast towards where I am in London / South East - ? - As well as what I have seen on TV that is coming across the Irish Sea into the North West.


I thought that I saw the South West would really get Heavy Snow - with it slightly diminishing as it swept across where You are and then further inland ?

Obviously I Hope that I was mistaken as I would NOT wish Bad Weather on anyone.


Regards,


Chris


EDIT - P.S. I forgot to mention that We have about 50mm of Snow where I live in London - at 21:30 Hrs - and it is still falling Steadily.


EDIT - Now at 02:30 Hrs We have 100mm of Snow and it is falling more heavily !

 

[UNG]

This `Fit a New PCB` - has become almost a Joke in the Boiler Repair and Servicing Area of the Domestic Heating Industry - perhaps You will not `Suffer` Financially because of your Boiler Cover with British Gas - But usually when the `PCB is Faulty` GUESS is made and the PCB is changed - this then `Shows` another Fault - After the Installer realises that the PCB did NOT need changing !

I find the new PCB thing a bit of a con that comes down to poor production soldering at manufacture as most PCB faults I've had on various types of equipment over the last few years just need a little bit of time with a soldering iron to fix the dry joints