Power One Problems

S

SRE

Anyone else having problems with Power One? We have 3 systems, all different panels, that have decided to trip as soon as there is any heavy rain. I can understand one, but 3? They were installed between March and July 2012.

We've visited one and Power One advised it was most likely to be damp getting through the connectors. This seemed to sort itself out for a few weeks with the first one (when the whole of the UK had really heavy rain and wind) now over the weekend the same one has gone followed by another tow. The common denominator appears to be the Power One inverter 3.6tl.

Anyone else seeing this????
 
The Power One low RISO limit is 1 Mohm which does appear easy to breach if connectors are installed such that they touch a roof and stay wet. A couple of my Power One installations have had to have connectors tied up better to cure low-riso faults on startup. Clean rainwater itself does not appear to be a problem, but it is when a connector stays damp for a few days and green slime starts growing on it.
 
SRE said:
Anyone else having problems with Power One? We have 3 systems, all different panels, that have decided to trip as soon as there is any heavy rain. I can understand one, but 3? They were installed between March and July 2012.

We've visited one and Power One advised it was most likely to be damp getting through the connectors. This seemed to sort itself out for a few weeks with the first one (when the whole of the UK had really heavy rain and wind) now over the weekend the same one has gone followed by another tow. The common denominator appears to be the Power One inverter 3.6tl.

Anyone else seeing this????
Click to expand...

Not had any Power One problems. Are the inverters in garages, lofts or outside? Are these models with integrated isolators?

Do you mean connectors in a string of panels or the connectors going into the inverter itself?
 
None of the inverters are in the roof we don't fit them in there and we always put separate isolators on, most are in a garage or utility room. When we spoke to Power One they were talking about the conectors in the string of panels and we always cable tie them. It's a bit worrying really I'd have thought this should have been covered on the panel warranty BUT it's 3 different panels types. Canadian Solar, Yingli and REC.
 
could be an issue with how you're making up the cable ends?

They usually need tightening with molegrips to get them fully water tight IME, had to redo some one a job recently our apprentice had done but forgot to tighten up properly.
 
SRE said:
Mole grips as well as mc4 crimpers?
Click to expand...
the crimpers are to crimp the cable on, the molegrips are to tighten the water proofing glands up against the cable, most of the time if they're just hand tightened it won't form a proper seal.
 
We have used both Canadian Solar and REC with Power Ones. Can't remember using Yingli though. We thought the MC4s on Canadian Solar panels were a bit rubbish.

Have you tried using pre-terminated cables? You can buy 2m, 5m, 10m or 20m lengths from Segen. We always thought they were expensive and make up our own on-site.
 
We make up our own and have .... hand tightened them .... with a very decent grip but not mole grips :( ever had one of those weeks!! Are we the only ones that haven't done this??

Just seen a customer's photo all over some advertising that a manufacturer and their installers are using - no permission asked! Fuming.
 
SRE said:
We make up our own and have .... hand tightened them .... with a very decent grip but not mole grips :( ever had one of those weeks!! Are we the only ones that haven't done this??

Just seen a customer's photo all over some advertising that a manufacturer and their installers are using - no permission asked! Fuming.
Click to expand...
I'm sure we've got a few out there as well. I'm pretty sure that they used to be hand tightenable, and at some point they changed slightly to being a lot stiffer, or we switched to using thinner cable or something.

Sometimes they can be tightened enough by hand, other times not, you've really got to test it by seeing if the MC4 still spins around the cable or not / if it's fully gripping the cable.

I'd suspect this would be the issue though, we've not had this issue with any of the power ones we've installed.
 
At least we know what we're looking for that's half the battle! We've "found" some scaffolding that'll do as a tower for the odd job so at least we don't have to pay for that.
 
Different manufacturers seem to be slightly different. Not sure which ones but some seem easy to tighten by hand, with a satisfying clicking sound while you do it. Others we have to use grips.

And some seem to distort out of shape as you tighten them. Very annoying.
 
Gavin A said:
I'm sure we've got a few out there as well. I'm pretty sure that they used to be hand tightenable, and at some point they changed slightly to being a lot stiffer, or we switched to using thinner cable or something.

Sometimes they can be tightened enough by hand, other times not, you've really got to test it by seeing if the MC4 still spins around the cable or not / if it's fully gripping the cable.

I'd suspect this would be the issue though, we've not had this issue with any of the power ones we've installed.
Click to expand...


We in-roofed a system from easter 2011 last year and the difference in the thickness of the insulation on the cables is amazing. The MC4's don't seem to have changed but the cable diameters have come down massively. Both came from segen.

I can't physically tighten them by hand anymore either.
 
Nope, we know the real reason it's because you didn't comply with clause 2.1.7

Plugs and socket connectors mated together in a PV system shall be of the same type from the same manufacturer and shall comply with the requirements of BS EN 50521. Different brands may only be interconnected where a test report has been provided confirming compatibility of the two types to the requirements of BS EN 50521.
Click to expand...

:wink_smile:

If you had have done, none of these problems would have existed ... like ****** .....

In the very early days we had problems with water getting into an MC4, (late 2010) since then we always tightened the glands with the MC4 tool (50p/pair off fleabay) or grips, also it has always been our standard practice to tie wrap the connectors to the rail so that they don't touch the roof, and through the atrocious weather we haven't had any faults. - I know it's not always easy toi do, it pays off though.
 
These 3 are the first ones we've had. The cables are always clipped to the rails and we always use the MC4 crimper - we've got the MC3 crimper from the earlier days - another useless tool! Anyway, this weather has really hit us and it looks as though the mega hand grip just hasn't been enough.

It's funny isn't it how you can be so careful about 99% of the job but there's always that 1% that trips you up. Still - we've got a mission statement now!
 
I dread to ask, but what the hell is all this stuff about mission statements?

also I saw something about quarantine the other day as well.

I think Napit must just shrug and decide to ignore half the rubbish that MCS come up with or something.
 
I definitely think we need to move to Napit, our re-scheduled inspection is due on 10th Feb and I'm dreading it. Unfortunately I'm not very good at keeping my mouth shut, you'd think I'd learn but the older I get the more it opens, particularly when you get a box ticker like we had who couldn't understand that 2 paragraphs of meangingful text was much better than 2 pages of meangingless garbage.
 
Part of our QMS (MCS 001 Appendix A item 11) we have a 'quarantine' area for non compliant / faulty / to be returned goods so that they aren't used inadvertently .. Mission statement.. Don't know where that one came from thought that was an NICEIC one :)
 
P.s. The quarantine area is a painted square 1m x 1m in the corner of the warehouse floor labelled up as such :)
 
ah right, yeah I did get asked about that, just said it was in the warehouse, maybe we should have a single designated area for faulty kit though.
 
I had to go away on sunday evening to redo my acs and my system, 3.6 outd tripped the rcd sunday afternoon, low riso. I had to turn it off and will have a look at it tomorrow.
 
As most people are finding as systems approach a few years old and the wettest January for 100 years, MC4's that haven't been fully tightened and salt, water and wind finally creep in and cause earth leakages...

Seeing as some of the installers that take pride and care are also experiencing this, I hate to think how many of the throw 'em on the roof brigades' systems are going to cause problems - maybe a pre-owned easy-dec may be a good purchase for all the maintenance we can pick up... :)
 
Have we had any reports of this happening with brands other than Power One?

Maybe there's a case for Chinese junk after all! That's probably what cowboys fit to maximise profit. Notice that inverter from "Jevban" on the main forum. That's a "SAJ" - Sanjing - from China. Possibly from Solar Trade Sales.
 
We're just buying some diy type scaffold, we don't intend to use it much, easy to store, doesn't break the bank and is only being used by us. Seems to make sense at the minute.
 
We've had it with an SMA inverter down in Cornwall. Not been down to see it yet but I'm convinced it will be a connector taking in water.
 
Not Sure this is relevant but we were called out to a system installed in 2011 by a company no longer with us, they had an SMA inverter showing DC earth leakage faults and either shutting down or tripping the RCD at the head of the submain.

We did a visual inspection and the DC side looked OK from what we could see but noticed that the outbuilding was earthed to earth earth by stake and to transformer earth by the armour of the submain. We disconnected the transformer earth so as not to export PME and there's been no issue since. Seems the few volts difference between earth earth and tranny earth was getting the inverter in a muddle.

Local adult retrainee spark had done all the earthing assuming that the more earths the merrier...
 
We've just had one of these through on a SB4000TL, 2011 vintage, no issues till now. How did you get on with finding/resolving them?

Voltage tests indicate that its on the end of the string - so its one we made off :-(
 
Eco Deal said:
its the RCD protecting the circuit had this on sunny boy inverters before you need 100ma RCD
Click to expand...
it's the inverter cutting out though, not the RCD.

the inverters have an inbuilt all pole RCMU system, I think it's set to 50mA leakage current, but I can't entirely remember where I found that info.
 
I've been doing some digging and i think it might be set to an insulation resistance value of 1MOhm on TLs, HFs is much lower at 0.2MOhms and will only generate a warning rather than a fault because of the separation.

The Mini Central's were changed via firmware a couple of years ago because of this problem but everyone i've spoken to at SMA say it isn't the issue.

From SMA

'The inverter type Sunny Mini Central SMC 9000TL/10000TL/11000TL is equipped with a measurement technology that goes well beyond the test conditions demanded in the standard and is capable of identifying insulation errors that can be difficult to detect. In order to meet the limiting value of 700 k Ω required by DIN VDE 0126-1-1, the devices were delivered with a limiting value of 900 k Ω .'

and

'As of December 1, 2010, SMA Solar Technology AG delivers the Sunny Mini Central 9000TL/10000TL/11000TL with a firmware where the limiting values for the insulation resistance were adapted to the new
general conditions. SMA Solar Technology offers this firmware as a free update on request for all previously
delivered inverters. The new thresholds ensure that the PV plants run safely and only actual insulation failures
(module break, marten bites) are reported as a disturbance.'
 
We had a trio 20kw fail last summer. Bad batch of components apparently. None since but we haven't done a huge amount of them.

Also had a 3.6tl fail, 1st failure of many installed.
 

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