Problems with a new solar install

[Ian-LS]

They are breaching health and safety regulations if they do this. Which can have a huge fine associated with it. It doesn't surprise me that they are cutting corners still.....

 

[Earthstore]

They are breaching health and safety regulations if they do this. Which can have a huge fine associated with it. It doesn't surprise me that they are cutting corners still.....

Added to this, which is of great importance, if you allow this and sombody gets hurt then you are jointly liable, something that I did not believe when I was informed until somebody showed me the legislation.

 

[heliosfa]

Added to this, which is of great importance, if you allow this and sombody gets hurt then you are jointly liable, something that I did not believe when I was informed until somebody showed me the legislation.

I was under that impression- have you got a link to/name of the relevant legislation? Just to give me something solid to stand on...

I am leaning towards telling them that they aren't going up and lifting panels off without the kit mentioned in the HSE guidance. In all honesty, I am surprised that they are letting this happen due to the fuss I made about the original team doing it.

I suppose the next step is working out how to say (diplomatically) that they aren't going up without harnesses, etc. without sounding like a wally. Any suggestions from anyone?

 

[Gavin A]

ladders and roof ladders could be ok if it were short duration work - ie if they can access the cables from the top and cable tie to the rail, which is possible - as would harnesses.

If they actually have to start lifting each panel to access the cables that would probably be the point where I'd think scaf would be needed.

You'll probably find they can access the cables from the top of the panels, and are basically using the top of the panels for support, which will maybe look more dangerous than it actually is.

There is also the issue with harnesses that they do create an additional trip hazard, and will be pretty awkward while working along the top of the panels, which is a valid concern, so personally if it were just retying the cables from the top, I'd probably opt for doing it without harnesses myself.

Hard to know for sure without actually assessing the job on site, but I'd not be so quick to judge on it tbh.

 

[Earthstore]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...=wsyYiLexF0LI_xVM3iKIJQ&bvm=bv.60157871,d.ZGU

Not sure if this will work
It does... 94 pages, page 8 states that you must make sure that the company you employ are competent....

 

[heliosfa]

You'll probably find they can access the cables from the top of the panels, and are basically using the top of the panels for support, which will maybe look more dangerous than it actually is.

Not easily Gavin - the roof is a hipped one with the whole facing full of panels as per pic below. The cables for the lower row are at the top of the row, so only accessible without the top row in place. They can only really get onto that roof if some of the panels are removed and from what he was saying this evening, they are planning to bring (at least) some of them down tomorrow.


View attachment 21713

Any more thoughts from anyone on this matter? the guys are planning to arrive tomorrow morning before their office opens.

It does... 94 pages, page 8 states that you must make sure that the company you employ are competent....

Thanks Earthstore, thats the NI version by the looks of it, but interesting reading.



Now, the plot has thickened a bit - I have just had to have a gas man call out as my boiler wasn't working (import & generation meter, etc are installed in the cupboard-under-the-stairs and you have to crawl under/past the boiler to get to them). The power light was flickering and it was making a sparking sound and "browning out" any time it tried to fire up. Boiler engineer turned up and said it sounds like a loose wire. On opening up the boiler, he found the neutral hanging on by a thread and the live completely free and arcing. The securing screws were still done up tight and there were strands in them so he says the flex has been yanked, which is not easy to do given its path. Sufficed to say, I am not a happy bunny...

 

[Earthstore]

Sorry, didn't notice that, but I can not imagine they are that different, maybe it is mandatory to wear a donkey jacket instead of a high vis and you can not go up there until you have had at least 6 pints of Guinness to settle your nerves....

It is your call though, whether you are happy for them to be up there with no safety kit or scaffold, or tell them that your brother is popping around who works for H&S as you do not consider it safe and as the customer you are equally liable should anything go wrong...... or some story like that.....

 

[Worcester]

Try Here: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/hsg33.pdf

See also this: http://www.cskills.org/uploads/GS001_Safe solar panel installation_tcm17-33755.pdf

 

[heliosfa]

Try Here: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/hsg33.pdf

See also this: http://www.cskills.org/uploads/GS001_Safe solar panel installation_tcm17-33755.pdf

Thanks Worcester - I have already thrown that guidance at the company in the report I sent them. So the fact it is being ignored again says something.

Sorry, didn't notice that, but I can not imagine they are that different, maybe it is mandatory to wear a donkey jacket instead of a high vis and you can not go up there until you have had at least 6 pints of Guinness to settle your nerves....

It is your call though, whether you are happy for them to be up there with no safety kit or scaffold, or tell them that your brother is popping around who works for H&S as you do not consider it safe and as the customer you are equally liable should anything go wrong...... or some story like that.....

Maybe the booze will make them bounce?

Seriously though, to dispell a myth, it looks like a home owner/normal person who pays a company to do work is not liable for their bad working - see here for some details on where a roofer tried to sue a homeowner who did not allow him to use the "safest" route to the roof and had a life-changing accident.

If they are taking panels off, I am definitely not happy for them to use a ladder and I will be putting a stop to it - whether that is by a call to the company, or maybe even the HSE concerns line, or me kicking them off site we'll see.

Their safety record is getting worse all the time though - the original mad roofer, leaving the install in a potentially dangerous state and seemingly managing to get my boiler into a dangerous state. Three strikes and they are out me thinks?

 

[Gavin A]

Short-duration work110 ‘Short-duration work’ means tasks that are measured in minutes rather
than hours. It includes tasks such as inspection, replacing a few tiles or minor
adjustment to a television aerial. It may not be reasonably practicable to install
safeguards such as a full independent scaffold or even edge protection for such
work, but you will need to provide something in its place. The decision on the
precautions to take will depend on an overall assessment of the risks involved. You
should consider:
■ duration of the work;
■ complexity of the work;
■ pitch of the roof;
■ condition of the roof;
■ type of roofing material (slate or tile);
■ weather conditions;
■ risk to those putting up edge protection; and
■ risk to other workers and the public.

111 The minimum requirements for short-duration work on a roof are:■ a safe means of access to the roof level; and
■ safe means of working on the roof, eg:
– on a sloping roof, a properly constructed and supported roof ladder; or
– on a flat roof without edge protection, a harness with a sufficiently short
lanyard, attached to a secured anchorage, that it prevents the wearer from
reaching a position from which they could fall.

If they can reach and clip the cables from below and above without needing to lift the panels, then it couldpossibly be classed as short duration work, however it looks to be rosemary tiles, so chances of achieving that on the top row without breaking a few tiles would be pretty slim - maybe with a roof ladder run from the front or something.

definitely safer and better to have scaffold mind.

This is why it's far better to do it properly in the first place, doesn't exactly take a lot of time to clip the cables up.

 

[heliosfa]

Yep, they are rosemary tiles. I am not sure how they would get a normal roof ladder on there without damaging the panels though given the panel coverage?

They only had one ladder on the van when they appeared today and it is not a roof ladder - it is currently in my back garden as they didn't want to reload it onto the roof bars.

Agreed that it should have been done properly in the first place, but then, they used a ladder and no safety kit then as well.

We will have to wait and see what they do in the morning.

 

[heliosfa]

OK, they arrived about 10 minutes ago and this is how he is doing the top row:

 

[Earthstore]

He wil need very long skinny arms to do the second row...
I will be amazed if he does not break a tile or two...

 

[heliosfa]

Right, so, they have ordered a scaf tower and in the mean time have gone to do a maintenance job over in Bournmouth.

Basically he seemed to be thinking of removing a panel (3rd from the left, bottom row) to get under the ones each side took out three of the bolts, and then stopped, thought and redid everything. He did, at one point during this, have a single point of contact with the ladder (unless chest counts) as he overreached to undo the top right bolt. I was about to put a stop to it when he stopped.

Just after I uploaded that photo earlier, I went back out and he had moved left to the lower row and said "I feel like I'm going to fall off" before deciding to come down. Weather is currently drizzly and the tiles look quite slippery.

 

[Earthstore]

One big plus for you is at least they are there trying to sort it, not that all these basic faults should have been there in the first place.