Problems with my roof

[littlespark]

I mentioned it a couple of times on other threads, and will link to here from those....

I found this diagram on t'internet showing how my roof has been constructed... closest anyway.

In my situation, the cavity wall on the left there has been removed, with a steel beam holding it up. Modern timber frame house with external rendered brick.

Our lead flashing isnt chased into the render.... fixed with a timber beam, folded over and down onto the tiles. This is always where they think the water is getting through, and its been sealed time and time again with mastic. The water still gets through.
The lead is also secured with hangers.... 2 inch wide strips of lead that come from underneath, and folded over the edge.
There is a tiny, maybe 2mm gap either side of this hanger

I believe the water is being blown uphill on the surface of the tiles, UNDER the lead flashing... next to the hangers.... eventually over the tile, and down the surface of the wall, under the roof.
It only leaks when its very heavy rain, and strong winds..... so its only happened a handful of times since it was first done....
Its a shallow pitch.... not 45 degrees... but not flat either... maybe 20 -30 degrees?


My suggestion of a solution... is to either use wider lead... so it comes down the tile further..... or use sealent, mastic or whatever where the lead sits on the tile, filling the gap.

Both the original roofer, when the extension was built 2015, and the new roofer..... who "repaired" it in august this year, couldnt find the issue.

 

[mainline]

I mentioned it a couple of times on other threads, and will link to here from those....

I found this diagram on t'internet showing how my roof has been constructed... closest anyway.

View attachment 119013

In my situation, the cavity wall on the left there has been removed, with a steel beam holding it up. Modern timber frame house with external rendered brick.

Our lead flashing isnt chased into the render.... fixed with a timber beam, folded over and down onto the tiles. This is always where they think the water is getting through, and its been sealed time and time again with mastic. The water still gets through.
The lead is also secured with hangers.... 2 inch wide strips of lead that come from underneath, and folded over the edge.
There is a tiny, maybe 2mm gap either side of this hanger

I believe the water is being blown uphill on the surface of the tiles, UNDER the lead flashing... next to the hangers.... eventually over the tile, and down the surface of the wall, under the roof.
It only leaks when its very heavy rain, and strong winds..... so its only happened a handful of times since it was first done....
Its a shallow pitch.... not 45 degrees... but not flat either... maybe 20 -30 degrees?


My suggestion of a solution... is to either use wider lead... so it comes down the tile further..... or use sealent, mastic or whatever where the lead sits on the tile, filling the gap.

Both the original roofer, when the extension was built 2015, and the new roofer..... who "repaired" it in august this year, couldnt find the issue.

I have the same sort of problem with my conservatory where it meets the house.
Apex roof of the conservatory causing damp on the walls, been doing it for years it's been looked at by 3 different who were all of the opinion that the lead needs taking off and redoing.
Mine is chased into the render.

Can you get in the roof space to see where abouts its leaking.

 

[littlespark]

no... cant get into the roof now....

Thats what the repair was in august,.... the new roofer replaced all the lead, new tiles (as apparently a lot were broken) and new sealant right along the top of the lead.

The lead cant be chased in, as its really tight to the underside of the bedroom window sill above.... The damp patches appear either side of where the window is... so is the sill protecting the length inbetween?

We have the same issue further along the roof.... but the wall there is not on the same plane as the dining room.... so its not like the water is getting in and tracking along.... This is a different egress point.
The window here is a little higher.... not giving any protection, and theres more than one spot on the ceiling.... but they are spaced out. I would say roughly the same distance apart as the lead strip hangers.

I found a photo.

first problem is in the left hand room with the bay window. other problem is in the centre at the front porch. We dont have a problem above the garage.... which might be because there is another roof under this one from before we built the extension.

I got the blame for breaking the tiles by walking on the roof to put up those lights. but..... the roof leaked in the first year before the lights even went up.

 

[mainline]

no... cant get into the roof now....

Thats what the repair was in august,.... the new roofer replaced all the lead, new tiles (as apparently a lot were broken) and new sealant right along the top of the lead.

The lead cant be chased in, as its really tight to the underside of the bedroom window sill above.... The damp patches appear either side of where the window is... so is the sill protecting the length inbetween?

We have the same issue further along the roof.... but the wall there is not on the same plane as the dining room.... so its not like the water is getting in and tracking along.... This is a different egress point.
The window here is a little higher.... not giving any protection, and theres more than one spot on the ceiling.... but they are spaced out. I would say roughly the same distance apart as the lead strip hangers.

I found a photo.

View attachment 119014

first problem is in the left hand room with the bay window. other problem is in the centre at the front porch. We dont have a problem above the garage.... which might be because there is another roof under this one from before we built the extension.

I got the blame for breaking the tiles by walking on the roof to put up those lights. but..... the roof leaked in the first year before the lights even went up.

Can't you moan to the roofer and get him to come back.

 

[brianmoooore]

Your plan doesn't go quite high enough, but there's no sign of a cavity tray in that plan. As it is, you will get damp patches exactly where you have them, following driving rain.

 

[littlespark]

Can't you moan to the roofer and get him to come back.

hes coming tomorrow morning.

The issue is, we have had water leaks in the past. We spent a lot of money to him to fix the water leaks.... the exact same leaks are there. he hasnt fixed anything.
Shall i just ask for my money back? (optimistic badge ready)

Your plan doesn't go quite high enough, but there's no sign of a cavity tray in that plan. As it is, you will get damp patches exactly where you have them, following driving rain.

Thats not my plan.... just an example of how the roof has been put together.
The wall is original from when the house was built in 2007.... We just made a big hole in it and made it into a room.

 

[brianmoooore]

This is what's missing in the plan, and if missing in your build would result in the damp patches you have: Bespoke Type E Cavity Tray - 500mm Length | Roofing Superstore® - https://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk/product/bespoke-type-e-cavity-tray-500mm-length.html
Water penetrates the outer leaf of a cavity wall, especially in driving rain, and runs down the inside of that leaf to the foundations, where it soaks away. If you block the cavity horizontally, this water cannot escape, so cavity trays are required above the lead flashing to collect this water. It either escapes through weeps fitted between every few bricks, or for a reasonably narrow opening, a steeped tray can be fitted, moving the water sideways to where the wall becomes outside again.
Edit: Looks like the trays I have linked to have their own integrated weeps.

 

[littlespark]

I would have thought the render would protect moisture from getting through the brick and mortar?

If that was missed, I’ll have to go right back to the builder who did the extension, or the architect for not specifying it in the first place.


Will see what the roofer says when he comes

 

[littlespark]

And….. he phoned to say he had a hospital appointment and wouldn’t get to us until after 12.
Just had to reorganise my mornings work back in after cancelling…

 

[Dan]

Ahh now I can help. Render is pourus like the cement so the airflow in cavity is meant to keep the two apart.

People have been spraying foam in the cavity around here and it's caused damp to come inside the houses! A government scheme that wasn't well thought out.

So a tray thing is needed?

 

[littlespark]

I’d it is, I wonder why it hasn’t been mentioned by anyone that’s been on site….
Is it a new thing that maybe wasn’t thought about when the extension was first done

 

[Dan]

So the extension has a cavity for sure?

This may just be down to one or two tiles broke with the wind to be fair mate. Just all works down the same route to the living space once its inside.

Round here I know some roofers there are two companies local that drank in the same pubs as me a decade or so ago, and I'd have been able to pinch one for half hour and bring them to you (something I've done for family before now).

They'd spot something fairly quick or at least give you 3 things to check. But only a roofer will work it out mate I think.

A roofer or @brianmoooore ha

 

[Dan]

Hang on I've just found your picture and explanation mate I can see that roof is a bit if a monster!

Can you see any broken tiles or anything when you put the lights up mate?

 

[Dan]

P.s. the cavity trays will be a tool in a roofers options.

Like with these end caps. You can use these or cement them up or cement and lead. Or a bit of all 3 over the whole roof.

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So it's not to say they've missed or forgot them as such. Might be wishing if you wanted to add them now I can't see how it could be done properly other than from inside the roof which you can't get to.

So it'll be lead they're likely to fix anything with as its going on the outside and doesn't want to upset existing lead fixes etc

Roofers hate a flat roof (although easy money usually) but they hate lots of rooves joining each other more over time.

 

[littlespark]

The picture with the lights is a few years old now.
He said there was broken tiles, and we paid to have them replaced along with the water leak supposedly fixed.
I think we were kinda scammed on the broken tiles… I mean, I’m not that heavy, and I wasn’t jumping up and down. Gingerly climbed out the bedroom window and edged along the top putting up the high gutter lights.
I think his guys were rough handed… they managed to break more new tiles and blamed a bad batch from Doves.

I’ve not been out there since the new roof was put on… only his guys.


There must be a specialist service maybe from the council that can come out and tell us how it’s supposed to have been done.