Proof of apprenticeship 1970s

[Donnie]

A question to anyone who served their apprenticeship in the Uk during the 70s and early 80s,do you remember what paperwork you were given on successful completion of you apprenticeship,I hit my C&G certificates and I remember getting a paper sjib card but nothing else, the card was lost a long time ago, now trying to get a new grading card but without proof of my apprenticeship it is difficult,has anyone else been in this position, by the way I have always worked as an electrician /electrical fitter since 1976.cheers Donnie

 

[pirate]

Coincidentally, was having a huge clear-out recently and found my "O Level" certificates...before they were called "O Grades" or "Standard Grades"...delighted to see I did actually pass my "O Level" Arithmetic, having failed the "Prelim"...and I can still recite the 12 x tables...which is bludi useful when doing quick calcs!
God, I'm showing my age now!

 

[UNG]

Any chance your apprenticeship was managed by the CITB it could be worth checking with them

A few years ago I went looking at the ECS site and was surprised how much info they had on me despite having never used the site before, the interesting part was initially I couldn't sign on / logon to get access to the site at the first attempt while it acknowledged my existance some of my details had been entered by others incorrectly when they set up their database from I believe were the JIB records, I had to call them in the end to try to unlock the problem as I was unhappy about them having my data on their system that I couldn't access after getting past a few jobsworth's I eventually found someone with a bit of sense that found my D.O.B. had been entered incorrectly stopping me accessing the site but they then wanted me to send in my birth certificate to validate my D.O.B., wasn't too happy about that and a few weeks later at an Elex I collered one of the head bods on the ECS stand who asked me to call him the following week and it got sorted.

So I'm wondering if the SJIB's database has lost your info because of a data input error, may be worth having a look at the ECS site

 

[ipf]

Did not do the C cert, too busy enjoying myself on site, in all honesty dont think I was clever enough with all that theory.

C cert was an extra 2 year course, generally completed after apprenticeship (second year, at least)
Some employers were unwilling to allow day release, I recall. Understandable, to some degree.
Most doing C ended up as foremen at decent size firms, at least, if not design engineers.

That is interesting, I have my C&G A certificate, but SJIB are insisting on a B certificate before I could get Electrician grade, and also proof of apprenticeship this is difficult as I don't have the paperwork, I have even given them the name of the journeyman that mentored me for 4 years, and also other sparks who served their time at the same company at the same time as me. Thanks for the information I will keep on trying, cheers

I would have thought that requirements of the 70s would be suitable, although the A cert was pretty basic and was generally taken after the second year of apprenticeship. It involved manual skills, Regulations and basic Principles.
It was the requirement to be an electrician, along with apprenticeship.
The B cert was like a continuation from the A, much more Regs and Principles orientated. I don't know why they're insisting on it.

C cert was a different story altogether and included a complicated Project section....but , even with that, I can only get a gold card 'approved electrician' grade card, these days.

I hope you sort something out, Donnie. You have qualification and experience, obviously. There should be some record hidden away somewhere as UNG indicates.
The problem is changing the goalposts...or those deciding the rules.

 

[Dave OCD]

OP did you do an indentured apprenticeship.

Ah yes I forgot to mention that bit, signed by me, my mother and the big boss. Although they did let me do it with my own teeth.

 

[ipf]

Ah yes I forgot to mention that bit, signed by me, my mother and the big boss. Although they did let me do it with my own teeth.

Where did you pull that pearl of wisdom from?

 

[Donnie]

Any chance your apprenticeship was managed by the CITB it could be worth checking with them

A few years ago I went looking at the ECS site and was surprised how much info they had on me despite having never used the site before, the interesting part was initially I couldn't sign on / logon to get access to the site at the first attempt while it acknowledged my existance some of my details had been entered by others incorrectly when they set up their database from I believe were the JIB records, I had to call them in the end to try to unlock the problem as I was unhappy about them having my data on their system that I couldn't access after getting past a few jobsworth's I eventually found someone with a bit of sense that found my D.O.B. had been entered incorrectly stopping me accessing the site but they then wanted me to send in my birth certificate to validate my D.O.B., wasn't too happy about that and a few weeks later at an Elex I collered one of the head bods on the ECS stand who asked me to call him the following week and it got sorted.

So I'm wondering if the SJIB's database has lost your info because of a data input error, may be worth having a look at the ECS site

Thanks, I think it was CITB, I will definitely give them a try too, cheers

 

[markbrads]

I completed my apprenticeship in 1985, had my C&G 236 1 and 2 Certificates and JIB Certificate of successful completion and that was it at the time.

Hi
I’m having trouble with the JIB (ECS) claiming I didn’t complete my apprenticeship which I insist I did and continue to work as an electrician 30 odd years later, your dates are similar to mine and I was wondering how long after the C&G 2362 did the Certificate of successful completion get issued ?
Would greatly appreciate a reply.

Thanks
Mark

 

[Donnie]

Hi
I’m having trouble with the JIB (ECS) claiming I didn’t complete my apprenticeship which I insist I did and continue to work as an electrician 30 odd years later, your dates are similar to mine and I was wondering how long after the C&G 2362 did the Certificate of successful completion get issued ?
Would greatly appreciate a reply.

Thanks
Mark

Hi Mark, I have given up with the SJIB,there is no point in wasting any more time with them.
I have supplied my C&G certification from 1979 when I completed my apprenticeship ,and also from 1995 when I completed another 2 year C&G course.
They are not interested if I can not provide proof of having completed my apprenticeship,this was between 76 and 80,the company are long gone.I offered to get testimonials from my fellow apprentices and the electricians who trained us as they are still about ,again not interested.
So my 46 years in the trade will not be recognised.
I am carrying on working, I live in a place where everyone knows that I am a qualified electrician and plenty folk remember us serving our time ,so getting jobs is not a problem, being in the SJIB or a trade body would be fine but doesn't compare to having a good reputation in the community where you are known.
Good luck with getting your grading,let me know on here if you make any progress
Regards
Donnie

 

[ipf]

Hi Mark, I have given up with the SJIB,there is no point in wasting any more time with them.
I have supplied my C&G certification from 1979 when I completed my apprenticeship ,and also from 1995 when I completed another 2 year C&G course.
They are not interested if I can not provide proof of having completed my apprenticeship,this was between 76 and 80,the company are long gone.I offered to get testimonials from my fellow apprentices and the electricians who trained us as they are still about ,again not interested.
So my 46 years in the trade will not be recognised.
I am carrying on working, I live in a place where everyone knows that I am a qualified electrician and plenty folk remember us serving our time ,so getting jobs is not a problem, being in the SJIB or a trade body would be fine but doesn't compare to having a good reputation in the community where you are known.
Good luck with getting your grading,let me know on here if you make any progress
Regards
Donnie

I'm with you, stuff 'em, mate. If you know your job and can provide a service, what's the problem. If you're self employed, just watch out for things from the insurance point of view.
There are people falling out of bed and into 'recognition' as qualified sparks, the vast majority of whom will be well inferior in knowledge and experience.
The game's gone ar$e over t!t, especially for the last 20 years.

 

[Tom 256]

Same situation.
Apprenticeship with the then North Western Electricity Board (NORWEB) in early 80's based from Fredderick road, Salford.

Have no proof of apprenticeship completed. Have emailed (NORWEB) as it now is and they state they have not kept records that far back.

The system here is broken for so few will retain a 'paper document' for 40 years to which for most of that time there was no need to do so.

I have the 2361 and the 2362 from C & G

 

[Tom 256]

Its frustrating that no grandfather rights exist to allow for what is a flaw in the system.
I have seen so many guys just through the AM2 who really don't have a clue. So much knowledge rests with the older guys and yet this depth of experience built on solid qualifications counts for nothing when the computer says NO

ECS stated I would have to declare my apprenticeship was not completed to progress my application. I replied I would not ever declare such for I know I did complete what was an outstanding apprenticeship.

 

[loz2754]

I would have been just down the road from you at Ward & Goldstone serving my time as an apprentice toolmaker! Circa 1978.

 

[Tom 256]

Yes now you say it I remember that name of Ward and Goldstone. Would be good to bring back more of the memories... that and proof of the apprenticeship served.

Funny how it works, my strongest memory of the Frederick road site was the staff canteen and buying burnt toast with jam as you waited to see which site you would be sent off to . I take it a liking still for burnt toast is not proof of F*** all. Stuff sure gets complicated when you have to accomodate 'the system' and that computer that says no.

 

[Tom 256]

In the latest version of the EAS qualifications guide - August 2023 - they have made a change.
They now acknowledge these qualifcations were pre AM2 and were completed without AM2 . I have an email from C & G confirming these quals incorporated an end point assessment.

They also acknowledge these qualifcations taken pre 1994 would have almost certainly been part of a formal apprenticeship (more so going back still a decade earlier when no youngster of 16 yrs of age could do so without an indentured apprenticeship agrrement). And for all that they still need a slip of paper handed to a lad 40 yrs ago! * Computer says NO *

It also shows the 2361 / 2362 was suitable for all forms of electrical work.

Anyone know anyone in the EAS / IET and able to submit this thread to them for comment?

Link to AUgust 23 doc - https://electrical.------.org/media/3074/eas-qualifications-guide-august-2023.pdf

Page downloaded in support of my above statements attached

 

[Donnie]

In the latest version of the EAS qualifications guide - August 2023 - they have made a change.
They now acknowledge these qualifcations were pre AM2 and were completed without AM2 . I have an email from C & G confirming these quals incorporated an end point assessment.

They also acknowledge these qualifcations taken pre 1994 would have almost certainly been part of a formal apprenticeship (more so going back still a decade earlier when no youngster of 16 yrs of age could do so without an indentured apprenticeship agrrement). And for all that they still need a slip of paper handed to a lad 40 yrs ago! * Computer says NO *

It also shows the 2361 / 2362 was suitable for all forms of electrical work.

Anyone know anyone in the EAS / IET and able to submit this thread to them for comment?

Link to AUgust 23 doc - https://electrical.------.org/media/3074/eas-qualifications-guide-august-2023.pdf

Page downloaded in support of my above statements attached

Tom.
Thanks for posting this ,I did not know about the update on the EAS site,I had given up on pursuing this any further,but now I might give it another go .
Regards
Donnie