Public Liability Add Ons

[Midwest]

I'm about to go self employed as a sole trader and looking to purchase some PL insurance. I've done some quotes and researched on this forum. My quotes aren't coming out anywhere near some of the ones posted here. Mine have been £300-400pa, compared to £65-100.

Now I think the difference is related to all those little add ons you can have. So I wonder if you can tell me what you'd bother with or not. My circs' are; domestic only, work on my own, less than 1 year trading, £2m PL & register with ELECSA & no EICR's. I don't expect my turnover (profit only) to be in excess of £30K (chance will be a fine thing!). Van insured separately (no tool cover).

1) Contract Works (c=100k £155pa). 2) Personnel Accident (c=£300 £170pa). Tool Insurance (c=£3000 £120pa). 4) Indemity Ins (c=100k £60pa). 5) Efficasy Ins (c=100k £120pa).

I've put in brackets, sample quotes for each. I understand insurance is all about risk. What have you had for a similar business?

 

[Octopus]

All you need is PL ins.

 

[grantr37]

Those levels of cover are all far far far far too small/low, you need PL cover for £3M + Product Liability cover (for parts/materials sold/installed) of £2M and Employer/Employee Insurance for £5M as well as recommended legal + professional indemnity insurance for £250,000 in case you get the finger of blame pointed at you for something that you didn't do/was not your fault...if you can't afford to pay the court and the lawyers then you defer to blame and submit to punishment by forfeiture (you buckle) and will get sued and ruined in any event...you basically get flattened on the spot and don't go past start...

Tool insurance need to be £10k to cover even £1k loss as you could lose more or lose less if you get burgled/your van robbed...
Van insurer has to know its a works van or driving insurance could be voided...

 

[HandySparks]

Those levels of cover are all far far far far too small/low, you need PL cover for £3M + Product Liability cover (for parts/materials sold/installed) of £2M and Employer/Employee Insurance for £5M as well as recommended legal + professional indemnity insurance for £250,000 in case you get the finger of blame pointed at you for something that you didn't do/was not your fault...if you can't afford to pay the court and the lawyers then you defer to blame and submit to punishment by forfeiture (you buckle) and will get sued and ruined in any event...you basically get flattened on the spot and don't go past start...

Tool insurance need to be £10k to cover even £1k loss as you could lose more or lose less if you get burgled/your van robbed...
Van insurer has to know its a works van or driving insurance could be voided...

As a sole trader, why does the OP need Employer's Insurance?

Also, I've never heard of an electrician opting for Product Liability cover.

As he's not doing EICRs, does the OP really need Professional Indemnity Insurance?

Tool insurance is down to your own assessment of cost and benefit, influenced by the sort of areas you work and where you keep your tools overnight.

 

[Midwest]

Hmmm, interesting comments already. I personnaly think you only discover what insurance you need, when you go to make a claim, and they say your not covered for that! I do't intend to do EICR's to start with, but one Insurance web site said 'If your business provides consultancy, advice, testing or designs you may also need Indeminty, Efficacy Insurance is designed to cover the failure of an item to perform its intended function'. So I guess if I was installing fire alarms/emergency lighting on a regular basis, and I should consider Efficacy Ins. Isn't an EIC certification design & testing, and require some Indeminty?
I have a van to commute to my current job, and my insurance company said as soon as I put some racking in I need to contact them!

 

[grantr37]

As a sole trader, why does the OP need Employer's Insurance?

Also, I've never heard of an electrician opting for Product Liability cover.

As he's not doing EICRs, does the OP really need Professional Indemnity Insurance?

Tool insurance is down to your own assessment of cost and benefit, influenced by the sort of areas you work and where you keep your tools overnight.

I have been told by somebody who was working as a health and safety inspector (and knows the law) that if you have a subcontractor in for a day to fit for example a glass automatic door that you will wire, they are classed in the law as an employee, even a parcel delivery person entering site looking for you to give you a pile of conduit and tray and a box of cable is classed as an employee liability whilst at your location of work and therefore business...as they are providing you with a service in the eyes of the law...

As for Product liability.....this covers bad/defective products.....so if a Light fitting you install causes a fire due to a manufacturing defect.....or you install 100 lights and 60 of them fail at a cost of thousands due to a manufacturing defect, it covers the cost of you replacing them, or as their insurers will almost certainly do, another company (which will double their prices then add a bit because it goes against you financially) so that's what this covers....
You are classed as the Seller of the products and the liability falls at your feet.....how much do you think this could end up costing you in court with lawyers wrangling for weeks and "professional witness" costs from hiring an engineering consultancy company to examine a burnt out light fitting to prove manufacturing error/defect as opposed to you installing incorrectly etc...


Professional indemnity insurance is even available for cleaners in case something goes wrong.....people can get sued for anything these days.....can you imagine somebody getting ill and then blaming the cleaner for supposed poor cleaning.....it goes to court...insurance companies and layers get involved...then the HSE...the cleaner has to get a lawyer and produce cleaning records and schedules....legal aid doesn't exist anymore.....how do they pay for a lawyer.....or do they just represent themselves and end up saying something that goes against them...or breaking down in tears and getting hit for contempt of court...fined/sued for tens of thousands and losing their reputation and ability to get employment...

Professional indemnity insurance is for everyone...

 

[HandySparks]

I have been told by somebody who was working as a health and safety inspector (and knows the law) that if you have a subcontractor in for a day to fit for example a glass automatic door that you will wire, they are classed in the law as an employee, even a parcel delivery person entering site looking for you to give you a pile of conduit and tray and a box of cable is classed as an employee liability whilst at your location of work and therefore business...as they are providing you with a service in the eyes of the law...

As for Product liability.....this covers bad/defective products.....so if a Light fitting you install causes a fire due to a manufacturing defect.....or you install 100 lights and 60 of them fail at a cost of thousands due to a manufacturing defect, it covers the cost of you replacing them, or as their insurers will almost certainly do, another company (which will double their prices then add a bit because it goes against you financially) so that's what this covers....
You are classed as the Seller of the products and the liability falls at your feet.....how much do you think this could end up costing you in court with lawyers wrangling for weeks and "professional witness" costs from hiring an engineering consultancy company to examine a burnt out light fitting to prove manufacturing error/defect as opposed to you installing incorrectly etc...


Professional indemnity insurance is even available for cleaners in case something goes wrong.....people can get sued for anything these days.....can you imagine somebody getting ill and then blaming the cleaner for supposed poor cleaning.....it goes to court...insurance companies and layers get involved...then the HSE...the cleaner has to get a lawyer and produce cleaning records and schedules....legal aid doesn't exist anymore.....how do they pay for a lawyer.....or do they just represent themselves and end up saying something that goes against them...or breaking down in tears and getting hit for contempt of court...fined/sued for tens of thousands and losing their reputation and ability to get employment...

Professional indemnity insurance is for everyone...

Got any actual examples of any of the above?

And if you need employer's liability insurance for deliveries, then every householder would need it.

 

[grantr37]

Got any actual examples of any of the above?

And if you need employer's liability insurance for deliveries, then every householder would need it.

Householders are not operating a business, they are consumers....you are a sparky therefore you are liable as a business, even more so when people are climbing around building sites looking for you to sign for a box of fuses etc....


here's some info, there's a mention of product liability on here:

Info Centre | NICEIC Insurance Services


a bit of info on product liability here:

Product Liability Insurance

and look at the second bit down the page here, it's about Product liability insurance:

Oakland Insurance Brokers West Sussex, Public & Employers Liability Insurance, Contractors Liabilty insurance, online Landlords Let Property Insurance, Goods in Transit Insurance Quote

hope this helps a bit

clicked save once and post came up twice....

 

[grantr37]

"Even if you are not liable for the damage, you may still face prosecution if you have supplied unsafe goods without taking reasonable steps to avoid doing so"



please see website below.....


people think "I'm ok I don't need that" until they are in court getting their house seized and their personal money and businesses poured over....and seized as well, all before lunchtime on the first day....once that happens your mobile phone won't even work anymore and you won't have a car to go home in, or even any money for something to eat....very quickly they will take your house keys away and change the locks.....and all because...you guessed it you didn't think you needed insurance and somebody else thought it would be nice to blame you for somebody else's mistake/manufacturing defect etc....

if somebody gets harmed by a defective product or loses valuable property to a fire, you're on your own in terms of insurance unless you have product liability protection....




Product liability: 23 FAQs | Law Donut

 

[grantr37]

Efficacy Insurance

 

[james the spark]

i went with hiscox through napit and was 120 with employers liability and professional indemnity

 

[Midwest]

Hmmm, mine came out at £300 with hiscox, does Napit give you a discount with them?

 

[imago]

"Even if you are not liable for the damage, you may still face prosecution if you have supplied unsafe goods without taking reasonable steps to avoid doing so"



please see website below.....


people think "I'm ok I don't need that" until they are in court getting their house seized and their personal money and businesses poured over....and seized as well, all before lunchtime on the first day....once that happens your mobile phone won't even work anymore and you won't have a car to go home in, or even any money for something to eat....very quickly they will take your house keys away and change the locks.....and all because...you guessed it you didn't think you needed insurance and somebody else thought it would be nice to blame you for somebody else's mistake/manufacturing defect etc....

if somebody gets harmed by a defective product or loses valuable property to a fire, you're on your own in terms of insurance unless you have product liability protection....




Product liability: 23 FAQs | Law Donut

Surely then the cheaper option instead of falling for the hype that insurance companies peddle, and lawyers love to perpetuate is simply to form a limited liability company? That way any muppet wanting to try some spurious claim can do one.

As for the liability for persons on site, a warning notice at the entrance forbidding entry to anyone not wearing the correct PPE and directly employed by whoever sorts that. Again much cheaper than insuring against alien invasion etc.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Ltd co is a simple solution for any liabilities and spurious claims. I am covered by Hiscox at £28/month, covers me for PL, PI, tools, employer and product i believe.