Pv sol

[sedgy34]

Hi guys

Dont have Pv sol yet have the demo only, how much is it and with all the prices coming down on modules etc is this also likely to come down in price.
Thanks

 

[SolarCity]

Not sure how much it is - it's not cheap but I couldn't do without it.

Try clicking on the forum sponsor link to the right and give them a call.

 

[finchy]

I beg to differ, you need to match inverter compatibility which is crucial in any design. However all the main stream companies provide very good software tools for free. Then you come to working out the customers returns I have a very compressive model taking sap, est, pivgs giving various scenarios, the output of this is very impressive.


I then use a cad package to enter all the measurements taken from survey. You need Leica laser measure, you can not call it a survey without, anyone uses a tap measure customers should run a mile. Every aspect of the roof is measured including chimney,flues, roof windows and dormers.


Assuming no shading then use the to size panels and inverters. However if you are unsure about shading then you create a 3D model.


This is where no other solar design package will compare. I use Sketchup as my CAD package it will simulate location based shading on your model. I'm now an expert in the software and can not see how pvsol can give you the degree of detailed information. I know at 4pm the house opposite on 20 November will shade your array.


I've said all this before I use specific tools which will do the each task 100%. There are no predefined limits. I only yesterday designed schco mounting frames to check my row spacing for shading. I then use the same program to print the plans for planning. Really can you do all this in pvsol ?


I might upset the forum sponsor but I'm from a computing and accounting background so know all about software updates £££.


Ps Basic Sketchup is free !

 

[SRE]

What I found with pvsol was that it speeded everything up by having it all in one place. So for example when you're matching different panels and inverters you don't need to have 3 inverter versions of software running as well as Google Sketchup etc etc and when we had loads of work and time was of the essence so you could get the next job surveyed and priced then pvsol was really useful.

The story is a bit different these days, I don't particularly want to spend anymore time doing designs but I'm having to watch my cashflow and who knows if things are going to get better soon. So I've decided not to upgrade my pvsol for the moment and like Finchy I managed for about 6 months perfectly well without pvsol.

If things settle down a bit next year though I'll probably be upgrading my pvsol

One more thing about pvsol - the climate data wasn't accurate for our area and I still have to use SAP as the base figures within pvsol.

 

[Earthstore]

Sorry to disagree here, but there is nothing wrong with using a tape measure, as long as you can read one....

As with all software, no matter how good it is, it is only as accurate as the information put in.

Some companies use Google earth to measure a roof, which in my opinion is Ok for a guide, but it is not very accurate.

Coming from an engineering background, a tape measure never lies, where as electronic measuring devices, although can be useful and look impressive to the customer can give false readings, I know, I have one and I always recheck with a tape measure.

 

[infinity]

Hi What model laser do you use there seem to be a few under that name?

Is it as easy as pointing at a point on the roof and taking measurement? or does it need setting on some kind of tripod etc?

is it the [h=1]Leica DISTO ™ D5?[/h]
thanks

 

[SRE]

Disto 8 and yes you need a tripod. It's a very complicated tool to do a simple job but great if you don't want to be on the roof and in this weather on a slate roof you definitely don't want to be on the roof!

 

[infinity]

Will the disto 5 not do it then? was just looking on their site.

I have a tented roof today to measure its always a ball ache!

 

[finchy]

I'm talking more about the double glazing type that don't have a clue.

We do use tape measures too. It just takes longer and on roofs with obstacles isn't hard to get an exact measure unless u get up on the roof !

Get the disto 8 !

 

[SolarCity]

I beg to differ, you need to match inverter compatibility which is crucial in any design. However all the main stream companies provide very good software tools for free. Then you come to working out the customers returns I have a very compressive model taking sap, est, pivgs giving various scenarios, the output of this is very impressive.


I then use a cad package to enter all the measurements taken from survey. You need Leica laser measure, you can not call it a survey without, anyone uses a tap measure customers should run a mile. Every aspect of the roof is measured including chimney,flues, roof windows and dormers.


Assuming no shading then use the to size panels and inverters. However if you are unsure about shading then you create a 3D model.


This is where no other solar design package will compare. I use Sketchup as my CAD package it will simulate location based shading on your model. I'm now an expert in the software and can not see how pvsol can give you the degree of detailed information. I know at 4pm the house opposite on 20 November will shade your array.


I've said all this before I use specific tools which will do the each task 100%. There are no predefined limits. I only yesterday designed schco mounting frames to check my row spacing for shading. I then use the same program to print the plans for planning. Really can you do all this in pvsol ?


I might upset the forum sponsor but I'm from a computing and accounting background so know all about software updates £££.


Ps Basic Sketchup is free !

I've fiddled with Sketchup a bit and it is handy. However, can you get a calculated yield from the software? It is ok to know that a house will be shaded at 4pm on November 20th but will you know how much of an effect that will have on an array?

 

[moggy1968]

tape measure does it for me!
All that computer trickery is fine if your 'from a computing and accounting background'. I'm not so a tape measure it is. If you look at the actual percentage error of a correctly used tape measure it's minute.
As my physics lecturer said, whilst sitting in a lab surrounded by electronic measuring gizmos, 'the most accurate measuring device in here is this - the metre rule'

 

[sambotc]

Finchy,would you be prepared to share the very impressive output model you use at all?

If it's any odds, i'm nowhere near Essex!

 

[finchy]

Hmm that's commercially sensitive information ....

 

[sambotc]

As is a lot of information that gets passed around on here :winkiss:

 

[finchy]

Well I thought I was the only Essex installer on here, it appears not so I can't give everything away. However let it be known .. I use scaffolding not towers, for safety of my employees and quality of finish, so u can undercut me on that ... But u won't see me in a H&S tribunal.

 

[sambotc]

I'm in Devon Finchy, so don't think i'll be undercutting you any time soon!

Fair enough I guess, I just begrudge paying extortionate amounts of money for specialist software when the market is as slow as it is, especially when you have to pay for updates etc. I'm currently sat here trying to work out how sketch up works!

I want to offer a good service to customers and SAP alone isn't going to do that, sounds like you've come up with quite a good system which is a good compromise?

 

[JulianC]

As seemingly the world's only PVSyst user I can recommend it - all the usual system design tools, with simulations based on historic weather data for an area and a 3D CAD-style modelling option for shading. Very powerful package but takes a little getting used to. No frequent expensive upgrades either. What is it with PVSol that sees people needing to keep spending money on it? (Genuine question - I've never used it so know not of what it is capable of)

Tape measures are awesome. I can (nearly) slide one 4.7m up to a ridge without it buckling. Try doing that with yer fancy Leicas.

 

[TJLinks]

Lasers are next to useless on a bright sunny day, ok in shade or grim days tho. A good tape measure should be your first choice with the laser when you need to measure ridge / eaves on a shed or factory unit

 

[SolarCity]

Lasers are next to useless on a bright sunny day, ok in shade or grim days tho. A good tape measure should be your first choice with the laser when you need to measure ridge / eaves on a shed or factory unit

Not if you have a D8! They're the mutts nuts. I believe the Solar Design Company (forum sponsor) stocks them.

 

[SolarCity]

In answer to Julian's question, it would be difficult for me to explain the benefits of PV*Sol over PVSYST as I have never used PVSYST. However, I've yet to see another package which can give me accurate calculations based on a 3D model like PV*Sol expert does. As far as I'm concerned, this is the number one benefit of PV Sol.

 

[sedgy34]

Sorry to disagree here, but there is nothing wrong with using a tape measure, as long as you can read one....

As with all software, no matter how good it is, it is only as accurate as the information put in.

Some companies use Google earth to measure a roof, which in my opinion is Ok for a guide, but it is not very accurate.

Coming from an engineering background, a tape measure never lies, where as electronic measuring devices, although can be useful and look impressive to the customer can give false readings, I know, I have one and I always recheck with a tape measure.

Thats what I do google earth it send a sap costs and returns if they are interested
go round with a tape and check the mains

 

[SolarCity]

Thats what I do google earth it send a sap costs and returns if they are interested
go round with a tape and check the mains

Is it not difficult to calculate shading from Google Earth? Or even Street View?

 

[sedgy34]

On site visits we take that into account shading and use that thing called logic!

Q. How did you do it before Pv sol??

 

[SolarCity]

On site visits we take that into account shading and use that thing called logic!

I misunderstood your post. I thought you meant that you did your SAP calculation from Google Earth.

Q. How did you do it before Pv sol??

I'd do what everyone else does, have a good guess.

 

[sedgy34]

I misunderstood your post. I thought you meant that you did your SAP calculation from Google Earth.



I'd do what everyone else does, have a good guess.

We have got a very good software with sap 2005/09 put in cost size number of panels,inflation, and it does it for you. 2 mins to do

 

[SolarCity]

We have got a very good software with sap 2005/09 put in cost size number of panels,inflation, and it does it for you. 2 mins to do

I understand that. I do my calcs on a spreadsheet. I just thought from your post that you did your SAP calculations from Google Earth.

 

[sedgy34]

I understand that. I do my calcs on a spreadsheet. I just thought from your post that you did your SAP calculations from Google Earth.

that would be magic

 

[SolarCity]

that would be magic

Thats what I do google earth it send a sap costs and returns if they are interested

Hence my question......

 

[sedgy34]

Errrr, ok! Google earth measure roof space yeh!

I work out how many panels for roof space then put it in the software,put in price and size kw it works out payback and returns etc.
mans it's simple to understand for the customer!!

 

[SolarCity]

I give in.

 

[sedgy34]

well if you still dont get it!! do give up!!

 

[SRE]

I think the point Solarcity is making is that his (and mine too) understanding is the data on Google Earth is limited, dated and doesn't show shading around the clock so it's almost impossible to give a sap rating because you haven't taken shading into account. So I guess technically if you quote without fully understanding you could be mis-quoting.

As you know we all tend to look after each other on the Forum if we can, so if we're missing a trick wth Google Earth and you can calculate the shading and produce an accurate SAP from it we'd all love to know about it because it would save us all loads of time and that's quite important to us all at the minute.

If you can't do that then I'd just be concerned that you might back yourself into a difficult situation with someone like REAL if they asked how you were doing your SAP calcs. As I say, we're all just watching each other's backs

 

[finchy]

I use bing and google before we survey, but it should only be a guide as there maps aren't up-to-date. So trees will be bigger however on fixed objects they are good to check your shading predictions !

 

[sedgy34]

I think the point Solarcity is making is that his (and mine too) understanding is the data on Google Earth is limited, dated and doesn't show shading around the clock so it's almost impossible to give a sap rating because you haven't taken shading into account. So I guess technically if you quote without fully understanding you could be mis-quoting.

As you know we all tend to look after each other on the Forum if we can, so if we're missing a trick wth Google Earth and you can calculate the shading and produce an accurate SAP from it we'd all love to know about it because it would save us all loads of time and that's quite important to us all at the minute.


If you can't do that then I'd just be concerned that you might back yourself into a difficult situation with someone like REAL if they asked how you were doing your SAP calcs. As I say, we're all just watching each other's backs

at last i get his point but only measure roof space on google earth nothing else, everything else is done on different software.

 

[SolarCity]

at last i get his point but only measure roof space on google earth nothing else, everything else is done on different software.

At last indeed.