Qms

[solartecpv]

Just taking this thread a step further, I've been approached by a sales and marketing company that want to get MCS/RECC approval for their business to make them look more "legitimate in the market place". They want us to allow whichever governing body they decide to go with to inspect our work as their sub-contractor. They have been assured that this is completely legal and possible as long as they have a QMS in place? They don't install or carry out any of the processes described in the definitions of MCS001. Is this the case, that a company that wouldn't even know how to fit a roof hook can display the MCS logo, that has cost us thousands of pounds to meet the requirements for? I know the MCS regulations state that an MCS accredited company can sub contract work but surely to get MCS accredited in the first place you need to meet all the requirements of the conditions set out in your chosen governing bodies rules for application, NICEIC, NAPIT etc.

 

[SolarCity]

That wouldn't surprise me at all. MCS = QMS

I had my NICEIC inspection on Monday and as usual the inspector is more interested in how you install than how you run your business. After test sheets, complaint sheets, insurance etc. is looked at, most of the inspection happens on site. It is interesting, I can pick his brains and most of our chat is technical.

I see absolutely no reason at all why MCS should be any different.

 

[solartecpv]

I really don't see how it is possible to be MCS approved if you aren't a qualified installation company? MCS001 2.2 are an "installer certification scheme requirements". "This scheme is open to any companies involved in the design and installation and set to work and commissioning and handover of microgeneration systems and technologies". Nowhere in the standard does it say that you can have a QMS in place and be MCS registered without being the organisation that carries out ALL, not ANY, of the above. The standard also states that you must apply through one of the approved accredited certification bodies. Lets take NICEIC fir example, "Qualifications for registration: (a) Is an installation company", the list goes on! Can anyone tell me how a sales and marketing company can satisfy any of the above and be allowed to display the MCS logo without fraudulently claiming to be an installation company? I understand that an MCS registered company can sub contract work out but how would a sales and marketing company with no technical know how become MCS approved in the first place? If someone has discovered a back door way of companies such as this, entering to a technically biassed industry I think the door needs slamming shut soon, before the prestige the MCS logo and scheme bring to installation companies becomes worthless!!

 

[Worcester]

MCS is much much more about your business processes and they will have to show which people in their organisation have which qualifications. MCS is about process and an audit trail.

During their first 'qualification' inspection, they will have to show how they comply with every clause in MCS 001, and also each of the processes to meet each of the clauses in their chosen technologies.

If they can't show how they do a survey and design, they will fail their MCS.

I actually suspect that they are conning you somewhat and looking to steal your knowledge and expertise to get MCS certified, and then go the whole hog and sub out the work to the cheapest non-qualified individual they can find. - seen it before.

The RECC stuff just requires you to pay your money...

 

[solartecpv]

Thanks Worcester.
As we all know, a QMS is fairly easy to put in place these days, pay a few hundred quid to a company such as Easy MCS and they will help and guide you right to the point of registration. When we first set up this is exactly what we did and couldn't fault the service. Our business has grown and developed ever since and we now use different systems.
The company I am talking about have been assured that they can get MCS approval (by a QMS supplier) even though they don't so much as own a screwdriver! No public liability insurance, test kits, tools, access equipment, PPE, nothing! They have been told that as long as they have a QMS in place and can take an assessor to one or two of OUR installations, they can become MCS approved and then sub contract all their installation work to whoever they please. Again I fully understand that an MCS registered company can sub contract part or all of its work, its the initial qualification and ongoing assessments where I can't see how they can possibly comply or be considered an installer.
Believe me, they won't be conning us out of anything, I'm actually tempted to keep going with this process to see how it actually works then present the whole thing to MCS for some answers.

Ive got no problem with legitimate, quality, qualified installation companies achieving MCS approval as that is who the whole scheme is designed for, its an "Installer Certification Scheme" not an installer sub contracted by sales and marketing scheme.

Sorry if this sounds like a bit of a rant but I think this subject needs addressing before any of the prestige surrounding MCS approval begins to mean nothing.

 

[Gavin A]

Just taking this thread a step further, I've been approached by a sales and marketing company that want to get MCS/RECC approval for their business to make them look more "legitimate in the market place". They want us to allow whichever governing body they decide to go with to inspect our work as their sub-contractor. They have been assured that this is completely legal and possible as long as they have a QMS in place? They don't install or carry out any of the processes described in the definitions of MCS001. Is this the case, that a company that wouldn't even know how to fit a roof hook can display the MCS logo, that has cost us thousands of pounds to meet the requirements for? I know the MCS regulations state that an MCS accredited company can sub contract work but surely to get MCS accredited in the first place you need to meet all the requirements of the conditions set out in your chosen governing bodies rules for application, NICEIC, NAPIT etc.

jump, running, a, take.

rearrange the above and email to the company as your response.

 

[solartecpv]

Agree completely Gavin A, but that is only the tip of the iceberg if a QMS supplier is getting companies MCS registered through the back door. I can highlight this one case and present all the evidence but what about all the others. This needs looking at a bit further up the food chain!!

 

[solarecosse]

hi can u tell me if i need design qualifications in order to get mcs, im a qualified installer but not sure if i have to go on a design coarse, im using easy pv at moment as its free and simpleand i know another local company are also using this.

 

[ArseyDee]

hi can u tell me if i need design qualifications in order to get mcs, im a qualified installer but not sure if i have to go on a design coarse, im using easy pv at moment as its free and simpleand i know another local company are also using this.

Sounds rough!

 

[Worcester]

hi can u tell me if i need design qualifications in order to get mcs, im a qualified installer but not sure if i have to go on a design coarse, im using easy pv at moment as its free and simpleand i know another local company are also using this.

Yes you will need to be able to show that you can design the system or have such experience or training.