Qs from a newbie

[lynneinjapan]

Hiya, I'm new to the forum and am thinking of retraining as a domestic electrician/installer (am I right in thinking that strictly speaking you can't call yourself an electrician unless you're qualified to do commercial as well?), and would like to know what folks here think of the idea, given my circumstances.

Bit of background: I'm 41, female, married with 2 young kids (5 and 2 tomorrow), live in Birmingham and have recently taken redundancy from my teaching job. I have a degree in electronic engineering, though all that means is that I'm good at exams - I've forgotten pretty much all of the content and, anyway, my knowledge of domestic electrics is practically non-existent.

Together with my husband I'm a landlord - portfolio grown organically up to now (he moved in with me, his parents moved to a retirement flat, we moved house, and we rented out each vacated house in turn) but we're hoping to grow further over the next few years, including doing some refurb work, so I thought that being able to do my own rewires, PIRs and PAT testing would be useful, and I could also generate a bit of income from doing other domestic electrical work. I've been assured that there's lots of demand for female sparks and I'll never be short of work, and told that the going rate is £60+ per hour (which I'm sure is very optimistic)... but that was by the people offering the training, who of course have a vested interest in getting me to sign up.

I've been looking at what courses are around for mature entrants from outside the trade, and the RF Training 7-week one looks quite good, albeit pricey at £5K + VAT (that does include all the relevant books, exam fees & kit, including a Megger MFT1710). I'm pretty sure I wouldn't qualify for any kind of retraining grants or discounts, so would have to pay full whack. The course includes C&G 2382, Part P, 2392 and Logic Cert. Domestic Periodic Inspection & Testing Award, which I'm told will mean I can do landlords' electrical safety certificates - though I gather from my research on this site that there's no such thing, so I guess he meant PIRs! I also asked about PAT testing and he said they'd include that at no extra charge, although it's not listed as part of the course content.

I understand that employers normally ask for 2391, but given my circumstances and aims, would there be any need for me to do it? They do offer it as an optional extra.

I appreciate that the course doesn't include any on-site experience - there's a lot of practical work but it's all in purpose-built training bays - so I'd hope to spend a bit of time alongside a practising spark before going it completely alone (although the course adviser assured me that I'd be fully competent and confident after just the 7-week course).

Also local to me is the OCLI Domestic Installer course: includes 2382, Part P, 2392-10 and 2377 plus solar PV. So it sounds much the same except that it would enable me to do solar PV (which I can't see myself making much use of, given the imminent drop in FIT payments) but not PIRs. I haven't yet enquired as to course fees or timescales for that one, but I imagine they'll be similar.

What would the additional ongoing / one-off costs be? I'm aware of:
Trade body membership (NICEIC / NAPIT / ELECSA etc.) - £400ish pa
Public liability insurance - about £100pa
Typical additional costs to maintain qualifications???

I'd have £240pw to pay for childcare on top of the course fees, so wouldn't want to spend any longer than necessary with the course not paying for itself! Once qualified, I'd also prefer not to work more than about 3 days a week on a regular basis.

Sorry about the length of this post - if you're still with me then thanks for sticking with it!

What do you reckon - good idea or waste of time & money? RF package better than OCLI one? Any better ideas?

 

[trev]

i think murdock was being optomistic with £20 an hour unless your self employed a firm would not pay that and if you did rewire your property you would need certification if its rented and that would take a year at least

Dingle she was asking our opinion about doing the knowledge and going self employed, how could rewiring and certification take a year?

 

[dingledong]

if she did a rewire and wanted to sign it off for renting ( as some agencies require this ) i would have thought she would have to show work to qualify to join an oprganisation of some sort

 

[lynneinjapan]

Well, I've looked at my four local colleges, but it's not very promising.

First one charges £890 for Part P and £315 for 17th Edition (cf. £1440 + VAT for these two at RF, so a bit cheaper), and from the course descriptions they seem to expect that anyone starting these courses is already a tradesperson doing some electrical work. I get the impression that the courses are largely theoretical too, in which case I might be as well to do it by distance learning (which I've also considered but I know I NEED the practical side.) I've sent off an enquiry anyway but I doubt if it'll work for me.

Second and third only do 17th Edition, theory only (and one also does 2391). The only other Electrical Installation courses they do are 2330 and 2357.

Fourth one doesn't seem to do anything at all of that ilk.

Dingle, yes, I realise that I'd have to get accredited by one of the trades bodies to be able to sign work off, and I imagine there'd have to be some kind of on-site assessment of my work for that. Would this take long once I'd got the relevant quals?

 

[dingledong]

it would depend on hpw much work you could get to show them . if you get 2 jobs and thats all they more than likely would not visit you , so it could take a year

 

[GLENNSPARK]

look.....the only thing that part p needs is for the applicant to hold the 17th edition....a crap state of affairs in itself really......its up to the o/p as to what route to take.....but i can see disappointment (and an empty purse) on the horizon here.......

 

[trev]

Dingle the 17 is a 10 week course (I believe) that is the minimum requirement for the NICEIC DI scheme. So after the 10 weeks the op gets the 2 major works required by the scheme, they come out to inspect and jobs a goodun she is an NIC DI.
Where does the year come from mate?

 

[D80]

From NIC requirements:

The business must also:
• Be directly engaged in domestic electrical installation
work and have experience of completing this type
of work for 12 months.

 

[Engineer54]

Geezus, ..... I wonder how many of these 17th Ed only DI's are out there, working in peoples houses?? frightening when you think about it!!!!

 

[trev]

They've waived the requirement for a trading history. You can even go straight for approved contractor now without a history. It must have been cutting down on their money making.
Yes E54 it is a scary thought how many people are running around with only the 17th, I know of 3 operating near me. Their work is disgustingly bad, I've cleared up a few of their messes and still they go on and they seem to be really busy. To add insult to injury they are pretty expensive too

 

[GLENNSPARK]

we come across stuff by em nearly every day eng.....do quite a bit for this letting agency and you know how tight landlords can be.....they will just go for the cheapest and that usually means one of these 17th only types that go round......so you can imagine some of the places we have to PIR....ffs.....:ninja:

 

[alarm man]

Hiya, I'm new to the forum and am thinking of retraining as a domestic electrician/installer (am I right in thinking that strictly speaking you can't call yourself an electrician unless you're qualified to do commercial as well?), and would like to know what folks here think of the idea, given my circumstances.

Bit of background: I'm 41, female, married with 2 young kids (5 and 2 tomorrow), live in Birmingham and have recently taken redundancy from my teaching job. I have a degree in electronic engineering, though all that means is that I'm good at exams - I've forgotten pretty much all of the content and, anyway, my knowledge of domestic electrics is practically non-existent.

Together with my husband I'm a landlord - portfolio grown organically up to now (he moved in with me, his parents moved to a retirement flat, we moved house, and we rented out each vacated house in turn) but we're hoping to grow further over the next few years, including doing some refurb work, so I thought that being able to do my own rewires, PIRs and PAT testing would be useful, and I could also generate a bit of income from doing other domestic electrical work. I've been assured that there's lots of demand for female sparks and I'll never be short of work, and told that the going rate is £60+ per hour (which I'm sure is very optimistic)... but that was by the people offering the training, who of course have a vested interest in getting me to sign up.

I've been looking at what courses are around for mature entrants from outside the trade, and the RF Training 7-week one looks quite good, albeit pricey at £5K + VAT (that does include all the relevant books, exam fees & kit, including a Megger MFT1710). I'm pretty sure I wouldn't qualify for any kind of retraining grants or discounts, so would have to pay full whack. The course includes C&G 2382, Part P, 2392 and Logic Cert. Domestic Periodic Inspection & Testing Award, which I'm told will mean I can do landlords' electrical safety certificates - though I gather from my research on this site that there's no such thing, so I guess he meant PIRs! I also asked about PAT testing and he said they'd include that at no extra charge, although it's not listed as part of the course content.

I understand that employers normally ask for 2391, but given my circumstances and aims, would there be any need for me to do it? They do offer it as an optional extra.

I appreciate that the course doesn't include any on-site experience - there's a lot of practical work but it's all in purpose-built training bays - so I'd hope to spend a bit of time alongside a practising spark before going it completely alone (although the course adviser assured me that I'd be fully competent and confident after just the 7-week course).

Also local to me is the OCLI Domestic Installer course: includes 2382, Part P, 2392-10 and 2377 plus solar PV. So it sounds much the same except that it would enable me to do solar PV (which I can't see myself making much use of, given the imminent drop in FIT payments) but not PIRs. I haven't yet enquired as to course fees or timescales for that one, but I imagine they'll be similar.

What would the additional ongoing / one-off costs be? I'm aware of:
Trade body membership (NICEIC / NAPIT / ELECSA etc.) - £400ish pa
Public liability insurance - about £100pa
Typical additional costs to maintain qualifications???

I'd have £240pw to pay for childcare on top of the course fees, so wouldn't want to spend any longer than necessary with the course not paying for itself! Once qualified, I'd also prefer not to work more than about 3 days a week on a regular basis.

Sorry about the length of this post - if you're still with me then thanks for sticking with it!

What do you reckon - good idea or waste of time & money? RF package better than OCLI one? Any better ideas?

why not just look after the kids,they need it at that age,or look after the inlaws instead of sticking them in a home and taking their house...just a thought like..

 

[lynneinjapan]

Well thank you for that lovely warm welcome, alarm man. Good to see that misogyny is alive and well. Oh, and don't you know the difference between a retirement flat and a home?

Everyone else, thank you for your helpful posts.

 

[trev]

I think that was him having a laugh as he has written in the past supporting more women coming in to the trade.
Made me giggle anyway

 

[alarm man]

Well thank you for that lovely warm welcome, alarm man. Good to see that misogyny is alive and well. Oh, and don't you know the difference between a retirement flat and a home?

Everyone else, thank you for your helpful posts.

i was only replying in the manner of the original post..

 

[Mad Spark]

Hi, and welcome to the forum,
I am also an electrician based in Birmingham and am fully aware of the training provider in question, I don't want to put any providers down in any way what so ever but just as a word of warning, I have recently, and would like to say foolishly, have taken on some hired help from a guy who has been and gained his qualifications from the very same company. He has done exactlly what you want to do and feels from what he has been taught to believe that he is now a 'FULLY QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN'.

However when asked to extend the ring main in a kitchen, he doesn't have a clue from where to begin, and after explaining it to him umpteen number of times he still cannot grasp that behind each socket there is an incoming and an out going leg, he seems to believe that the incoming is in the socket closest to the board and the out going at the furthest socket from the board.

The point being is that we all learn and start of somewher, some of us it takes a long time on the tools to get to a standard where we can call our selves improvers, and some time later with experience and knowledge can we then call us an electrician. There is no way at all that anyone can convince me that they can becaome an electrician in 7 weeks.

I also tested my mate on a few basics, what type of supply, whats zs, why we measure it, what to do when its too high, etc, each of these question he went arounfd and around the block but did not have the foggiest.

My sister is a teacher in a secondary school, and after comparing both our income, I also want to become a teacher, with all the holidays, finishing work by 3:30, I dont get home till gone 10 sometimes and thats with starting at 8:00 every morning. So my advice is to continue as a teacher, and if and when you need an electrician for your properties come along on this forum and advertise the job, I am sure some one on here will come out to help you out.

I hope I have helped in some way with real life examples