Question about BS 7671:2008 - future access and use of technology

[SYKRAPS]

I think that when we purchase a copy of BS7671 it should come with a license where we can also download a copy for digital use..............god knows it costs enough

 

[Phoenix]

Personally, I think paper is quicker. I use a Kindle to read novels a lot but they're easy, just sequential pages. On technical documents, searching for terms is actually difficult to set up. You might want to look up, say, "cable sizes". In a printed index you would come across "cable selection" and quickly look that up. A search on electronic copies MAY not be as intuitive. It's easy to turn a book through 90 degrees to read a table, maybe more difficult with a screen. I know, perhaps, it's an age thing but I reckon I could find things quicker in a paper book than is possible with most mobile devices. I remember being able to beat calculators on simple calculations with a slide rule. Whatever suits really I guess...

 

[Outspoken]

OK, here are some of my thoughts on the posts I did not see until late last night and I have decided to answer together in one post, I would firstly like to say THANKS to all who have responded so far.

i always buy printed books as i prefer the tactile feeling of thumbing through pages.
the other advantage is you need no other equipment or power supply.
lifes far too digitized these days ;-)

OK Biff, I get that, there are time I too prefer to whizz though the real thing and physically have a book, but lets be honest the world and technology is changing and I do feel that we need to move forward on our approach so that all schools of thought and working are catered for.

Plus how would it work taking a digital copy into a exam? Surely you cheat alot more as you can always hide lots of info on a hard drive

Couple of points here, firstly, internet access can easily be blocked in an exam room, if you let in the printed version, then there is not reason to block the electronic version; secondly perhaps this is why we should all have a printed version regardless or perhaps the software could have an electronic "switch" for exam mode and this is set when you turn up for the exam with a pin that has to be entered to disable it when you leave (by the examining board)

The OSG will do for everyday use, why cart the BGB around!

That's fair enough, but for many electricians and engineers the OSG is not sufficient.

I posed some questions on electronic forms of publications not so long ago. Not trialled the IET version yet. But very keen to be able to have reference from my phone or tablet would be handy for those get out of jail days. But i think this day and age if you purchase the published version, then you should get some sort of free access to a pdf,/website/or some electronic form.

I would for the most part agree there, the exact mechanics of this would have to be worked out but at the moment I do not feel the Regs and the support services are actually value for money. (Not that I can do anything about that personally)

Digital exam programs which have all resources you're allowed inside and which limit you to that program once the exam has began etc etc. This sort of thing is already in place for many other courses outside of Electrical.

Thanks for that input Gage, all good information.

I can't vote as I don't fit into any of the options. I intend to purchase the digital versions and I'm fed up carting the book around and I use a laptop for reports/certificates anyway. As said the IET already offer the books as an electronic option and if you are member they are cheaper. I don't see that a couple of hundred pounds is that unreasonable (obviously I'd prefer it if they were free or heavily subsidised to IET members) and at the end of the day we are all running a business so should be able to factor in the cost?

You can still vote and for your information £330 for the full digitized version is a rip off for a system that whilst good, does not do everything it should for the price paid. Students etc cannot afford £330 and why should it be heavily subsidized for members, or do you mean all who join the IET...bear in mind the different grades of membership from Student to Fellow, via TMIET, MIET

 

[Outspoken]

And this is for the last two that would not fit in the multi-quote above!

I think that when we purchase a copy of BS7671 it should come with a license where we can also download a copy for digital use..............god knows it costs enough

I'm of a different opinion, personally I think the printed version should be FREE when you perhaps buy or subscribe to an interactive online/digital version

Personally, I think paper is quicker. I use a Kindle to read novels a lot but they're easy, just sequential pages. On technical documents, searching for terms is actually difficult to set up. You might want to look up, say, "cable sizes". In a printed index you would come across "cable selection" and quickly look that up. A search on electronic copies MAY not be as intuitive. It's easy to turn a book through 90 degrees to read a table, maybe more difficult with a screen. I know, perhaps, it's an age thing but I reckon I could find things quicker in a paper book than is possible with most mobile devices. I remember being able to beat calculators on simple calculations with a slide rule. Whatever suits really I guess...

Phoenix, having written some small publications for Kindle I know what you mean, but the real issue here is that many authors do not truly understand how to use HTML and associated programming code so the publications are clunky and clumsy, there are a few out there that make full use of the ability of the software to be truly interactive, but with a few exceptions this tends to be limited to those publication specifically about publishing on Kindle, writing in HTML 5 or similar, Web Authoring guides and some very specialised scientific books that cost hundreds of pounds...and a handful of small publications I have undertaken in a very specialised field within Astronomy.

 

[Rockingit]

we all know that carrying a Regs book and other references is impractical.

I'm inclined to disagree - or certainly not agree entirely! I have never found carrying a copy of the B(colour)B in the van to be an issue at all, and certainly many other sparks do the same. If I need to reference it myself then, well, a decent sparks knows his way around the book and where stuff is anyway. If I need to wave it in front of a customers nose then a big imposing book full of intricate detail and diagrams is far more a useful and believable tool than "hang on, I'll just wait five minutes for the technology to warm up and, hmm, ok that search string wasn't quite right, can't quite make out the pic on this small screen on my phone, if you scroll through to...., signal's not very good here - can I access your wifi?" etc etc etc.

And no - I'm an awfully long way from being an IT snail, I just happen to think that the printed matter is the right tool for the job in this instance.

 

[Outspoken]

I'm inclined to disagree - or certainly not agree entirely! I have never found carrying a copy of the B(colour)B in the van to be an issue at all, and certainly many other sparks do the same. If I need to reference it myself then, well, a decent sparks knows his way around the book and where stuff is anyway. If I need to wave it in front of a customers nose then a big imposing book full of intricate detail and diagrams is far more a useful and believable tool than "hang on, I'll just wait five minutes for the technology to warm up and, hmm, ok that search string wasn't quite right, can't quite make out the pic on this small screen on my phone, if you scroll through to...., signal's not very good here - can I access your wifi?" etc etc etc.

And no - I'm an awfully long way from being an IT snail, I just happen to think that the printed matter is the right tool for the job in this instance.

I would tend to agree with this, but a couple of points I would make is this;

Not all electricians are self employed or in a position to use the Book all the time

Even the self employed ones need a boost occasionally and it is not always practical to run out to the van...

I know, I was self employed for many many years and even now I actually have a copy of the Regs and the OSG in all my main vehicles so that if I get called to a site I know I have a copy (sad git I am!)

 

[Deleted member 72666]

I would defiantly prefer it and use it, but as long as you don't need to pay extra for i.e you still buy the book but you get a download option with a unique code which you can download 5 times etc..

^^^What he said!

 

[overskilled]

What would be handy for PIRs etc would be an app (with an annual sub say) that let you put in approximate date of installation and gave you the regs for that period so you could check if the install was compliant.
How many 14th or 15th Edition installs are still going to be around in 30 years time? (I'd wager quite a few, worked on one recently wired in 1968, stranded T+E, all original apart from a recent CU upgrade by another spark) How many sparks will have worked on the 15th edition by then?

OSG in an ereader compatible format would be handy, be useful to carry around

 

[Knobhead]

My vote for the most pointless thread ever goes tooooo………….


You’ll never get the IET to kill the cash cow.

 

[Paul Marsh]

General comments and observations:

I must admit I am a little bias where PDF is concerned but as regards having to use the regs, .. A PDF version would be ideal.

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PDFs, like web pages, can be INTERACTIVE with links (to a reg., cross references, a website, etc.). PDFs are cross platform and can be tailored to different size formats too.

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Cost: We all know the paper versions of the industry “must-haves” are over-priced. The oddity is, the electronic versions from the IET are even more expensive but cost nothing to “print”, so if anything should be cheaper!

I believe there should be a reasonable blanket price, say £40~£50 incl. VAT for the regs and you essentially (as has been suggested) get a paper copy with license to access a PDF download.

It’s not just the regs. I can see many a useful technical publication which would be of great use on something like a tablet which is easier to “navigate” back and forth with cross-references.

Paul

 

[UNG]

My vote for the most pointless thread ever goes tooooo………….


You’ll never get the IET to kill the cash cow.

The nail hit very squarely on the head. For something that is a must have a change in the regs can be expensive when you factor in the 8 guidance notes admittedly not all are needed for some aspects of electrical work but the continual updates are a profit zapping expense


I think the big issue here is the massive premium cost for an electronic version of the regs. In this day and age where more and more books are being published electronically I don't see how the cost is justified let's face it a lot of companies produce fully searchable product catalogues that don't seem to make the product being sold excessively expensive so why do the IET apparently have such expensive publishing costs

 

[Outspoken]

I think you will find the IET and BSI do not make any real money from the digitised versions, it's the company that produces them for them that make all the money. I know that the printed reg book only makes the IET about £10 a copy, (same for BSI) the rest goes to the publisher, distributor etc...

I am trying to gauge opinions as I have a meeting with the IET in a August about a different matter but want to use the opportunity to raise this issue because I feel this is an important one that needs to be addressed.