question for the experienced or recently qualified sparky

[welshdragon79]

having recently started training to become an electrician, enrolled end of jan, and yet to start any practicall classroom lessons, i do find some of the training material seemingly going a bit off topic, and question the relevance to the training, my current bit of reading material (to be followed in 6 days by a mock exam) includes a section about algebra and ,Trigonometry, neither of which i did in highschool as wasnt the brightest of students, i'm just cuirious as to how this applies to the trade? (some of the material seems to almost set some people up to fail) and questions if this is a large contributor to the supposed shortage in people training up to be an electrician as i can quite imagine people being put off.

 

[James]

Algebra and trig are both relevant to electrical theory.

there are of course many rules of thumb and tabulated information that may be used far more often in your working life, however it is important to show you understand how these things can be calculated because some jobs don’t fit the standard circuit arrangements that have all been pre calculated.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Wait till they teach you quontom phisics then you head will start spinning.
Newton's law chuck a apple in the air to see hits you in the head to see if you get every thing what they teach you.

 

[MJPD29]

They will go over this. You’ll find in your first year you’ll go over a lot of things that seem irrelevant, some will be useful to you and some you’ll never use again. Stuck with it, the practical side is only part of the job, understanding the theory is key also.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

a section about algebra and ,Trigonometry, .... i'm just curious as to how this applies to the trade?

Maths is a box of tools that we can use to help understand and predict how things behave in the real world. Electricity is particularly well suited to being understood mathematically, because it faithfully follows the laws of physics. If you can do the maths to apply those laws, you can gain huge insight into what is going on 'under the hood' of electrical systems.

Many design tasks and everyday questions that arise in electrical work can be solved with a handful of basic equations using simple algebra. E.g. specifying cables and circuit breakers, voltage drop and impedance questions etc. Trigonometry might be needed for calculating power factor, 3-phase system behaviour etc.

Each extra mathematical tool gives you the ability to crack more detailed and advanced problems. I'm an electrical & electronic engineer and I would say that I use maths of at least A-level standard on a daily basis. There's a ton of much more advanced and obscure stuff that hardly ever gets wheeled out, but at least having studied it once it's easier to get to grips with when required.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

having recently started training to become an electrician, enrolled end of jan, and yet to start any practicall classroom lessons, i do find some of the training material seemingly going a bit off topic, and question the relevance to the training, my current bit of reading material (to be followed in 6 days by a mock exam) includes a section about algebra and ,Trigonometry, neither of which i did in highschool as wasnt the brightest of students, i'm just cuirious as to how this applies to the trade? (some of the material seems to almost set some people up to fail) and questions if this is a large contributor to the supposed shortage in people training up to be an electrician as i can quite imagine people being put off.

Maths is beautiful @welshdragon79 !
It helps us gain an understanding of why the real world acts as it does. However, in relation to electrics it is also really important to at least have a basic grasp. I used a bit of trig the other day when deciding what angle to drill at. I've also used algebra when working out a tricky diversity calculation. Also, algebra is used in many more ways including the often used ohms law (V = I x R). You need to understand how to rearrange that equation to work out current or resistance. The adiabatic equation is another occasional used equation that you will very likely end up using at some point.

A good teacher will help you realise that the above is really not too difficult. A bad teacher will just make you more scared.

Ask on here with any specific maths questions, or send me a message as I love explaining maths. Or ask @Lucien Nunes as he is at a loose end and wants more questions . Plus, his maths ability compared to mine will be like a novice to master. Although, he may throw in a bit of string theory or quantum mechanics, just skim those bits

 

[timhoward]

To give an example - any job where you need to get power to an outbuilding any distance away could rely on a bit of maths to

• help choose the right cable that is up to the job for the load
• proving voltage hasn't dropped too much by the end of it (due to it being a long run with more resistance)
• proving that fault conditions will disconnect the supply quickly enough.
• cough....making sure that you actually have enough cable (mentioning no names)

Like most things maths gets easier if you practise it, so don't be put off if you never cracked some topics before. If you aren't getting the support you need from college you could maybe try the BBC bitesize videos, they are mainly very good.

 

[welshdragon79]

Maths is beautiful @welshdragon79 !
It helps us gain an understanding of why the real world acts as it does. However, in relation to electrics it is also really important to at least have a basic grasp. I used a bit of trig the other day when deciding what angle to drill at. I've also used algebra when working out a tricky diversity calculation. Also, algebra is used in many more ways including the often used ohms law (V = I x R). You need to understand how to rearrange that equation to work out current or resistance. The adiabatic equation is another occasional used equation that you will very likely end up using at some point.

A good teacher will help you realise that the above is really not too difficult. A bad teacher will just make you more scared.

Ask on here with any specific maths questions, or send me a message as I love explaining maths. Or ask @Lucien Nunes as he is at a loose end and wants more questions . Plus, his maths ability compared to mine will be like a novice to master. Although, he may throw in a bit of string theory or quantum mechanics, just skim those bits

thank you, bad enough being 43, and re-training 25.5 years after leaving collage last time, it's been about 30 years since i dropped maths at the end of third year highschool..

 

[nicebutdim]

thank you, bad enough being 43, and re-training 25.5 years after leaving collage last time, it's been about 30 years since i dropped maths at the end of third year highschool..

You're not alone in this.

 

[rozza72]

Maths is beautiful @welshdragon79 !
It helps us gain an understanding of why the real world acts as it does. However, in relation to electrics it is also really important to at least have a basic grasp. I used a bit of trig the other day when deciding what angle to drill at. I've also used algebra when working out a tricky diversity calculation. Also, algebra is used in many more ways including the often used ohms law (V = I x R). You need to understand how to rearrange that equation to work out current or resistance. The adiabatic equation is another occasional used equation that you will very likely end up using at some point.

A good teacher will help you realise that the above is really not too difficult. A bad teacher will just make you more scared.

Ask on here with any specific maths questions, or send me a message as I love explaining maths. Or ask @Lucien Nunes as he is at a loose end and wants more questions . Plus, his maths ability compared to mine will be like a novice to master. Although, he may throw in a bit of string theory or quantum mechanics, just skim those bits

Hi happyHippyDad,
Sorry for the out-of-the blue message
Just saw your message re maths questions...as it happens I have one!
Just flicking through the Electrical installations Calcs book 10th edition trying to get my brain back into maths and I'm stumped with one (prob easy question - attached) are you, or anyone else you can think of, able to point me in the right direction, the phrase 'wood for the trees' comes to mind! and I'm almost at the scream 'WHY' at the sky on my knees stage, which I one down from throwing myself on the floor in tears lol.

regards
Rozza72

 

[timhoward]

Hi happyHippyDad,
Sorry for the out-of-the blue message
Just saw your message re maths questions...as it happens I have one!
Just flicking through the Electrical installations Calcs book 10th edition trying to get my brain back into maths and I'm stumped with one (prob easy question - attached) are you, or anyone else you can think of, able to point me in the right direction, the phrase 'wood for the trees' comes to mind! and I'm almost at the scream 'WHY' at the sky on my knees stage, which I one down from throwing myself on the floor in tears lol.

regards
Rozza72

I haven’t had time to check it thoroughly but first suspicion is that the difference is caused by your rounding
You have:
8/65=0.123
Have you tried using the full value of
0.123076923076923 in your calculations?

 

[rozza72]

I haven’t had time to check it thoroughly but first suspicion is that the difference is caused by your rounding
You have:
8/65=0.123
Have you tried using the full value of
0.123076923076923 in your calculations?

Interesting i’ll give it a whirl, thanks for taking a look

 

[Pete999]

Hi happyHippyDad,
Sorry for the out-of-the blue message
Just saw your message re maths questions...as it happens I have one!
Just flicking through the Electrical installations Calcs book 10th edition trying to get my brain back into maths and I'm stumped with one (prob easy question - attached) are you, or anyone else you can think of, able to point me in the right direction, the phrase 'wood for the trees' comes to mind! and I'm almost at the scream 'WHY' at the sky on my knees stage, which I one down from throwing myself on the floor in tears lol.

regards
Rozza72

 

[Biff61]

Algebra and trig are both relevant to electrical theory.

there are of course many rules of thumb and tabulated information that may be used far more often in your working life, however it is important to show you understand how these things can be calculated because some jobs don’t fit the standard circuit arrangements that have all been pre calculated.

Oh so true, it's 40 years ago since I did any trig in tech during my apprenticship, but last week I actually had to drag it out from the recesses of my remaining brain cell to calculate the current in the neutral on a facility and use graph paper.
My head was spinning after a while, would have been nice to have a clamp meter, would have made my life so easy.