RCBO's Can the excess wires from them be cut off??

[BillyTheSparks]

Hi,

I was talking to another sparks that I know, and the conversation swayed onto leaving the wires from the RCBO's and not just cutting them off.
The conversation was cut short though and the reasons were not made to me to leave them as is.

And seeing another thread in the 'Electricians Arms' reminded me of this conversation; so I was just wondering.

Should they be left alone or can they be cut off?

Should this only be discussed in the 'E.A'?

I have no opinon as yet to this, so would greatly accept any veiws.


Cheers Billy.

 

[Engineer54]

I am a domestic sparks and will now be purchasing ferrule crimps and if I need new set of crimpers for these (not sure if the ones I own will be sufficient?)
as others have said before "cover your arse" it might be a pain and cost a little bit more per board, but at least they'll be right.

Probably not, a ferrule crimping tool has a die that wraps the ferrule on the conductor before compressing them solidly together... There not that expensive, even for a decent one!!

 

[BillyTheSparks]

Any advice on make for these E54? And should I just get a selection of ferrules?

 

[Doomed]

I have a selection of crimpers, mostly C.K., make sure you get ratchett crimpers.

 

[PC Electrics]

Personally, in my standard carry-in tool bag I have a pair of ferrule crimpers and non insulated ferrules in all sizes from 0.5 to 10mm. I use them loads:
0.75 and 1.0 on CH systems
1.5 and 2.5 on immersion and storage heater cables
4 and 6 on H07RN-F flexes to ovens and cookers
even put 6s on t&e ends before putting in those great big connectors in showers cos they spread the strands too far.
and as mentioned, 0.5, 4 and 6 on RCBO leads.


I recently attended a 1st amend seminar given by Hager. One of the chaps was Hagers Tech Manager, so I asked him about this myth. He replied that it's fine to cut the leads to length, but they should be ferruled. I replied thanks and btw why don't you supply a pair of spare ferrules with each RCBO then!!

 

[Engineer54]

Personally, in my standard carry-in tool bag I have a pair of ferrule crimpers and non insulated ferrules in all sizes from 0.5 to 10mm. I use them loads:
0.75 and 1.0 on CH systems
1.5 and 2.5 on immersion and storage heater cables
4 and 6 on H07RN-F flexes to ovens and cookers
even put 6s on t&e ends before putting in those great big connectors in showers cos they spread the strands too far.
and as mentioned, 0.5, 4 and 6 on RCBO leads.


I recently attended a 1st amend seminar given by Hager. One of the chaps was Hagers Tech Manager, so I asked him about this myth. He replied that it's fine to cut the leads to length, but they should be ferruled. I replied thanks and btw why don't you supply a pair of spare ferrules with each RCBO then!!

Just as well they don't, ...They'll be the most expensive pair of ferrules you'll ever buy!! ...lol!!!

 

[yellowvanman]

I recently attended a 1st amend seminar given by Hager. One of the chaps was Hagers Tech Manager, so I asked him about this myth. He replied that it's fine to cut the leads to length, but they should be ferruled. I replied thanks and btw why don't you supply a pair of spare ferrules with each RCBO then!!

If I meet him I'd ask him why the 40A RCBO only has a neutral lead suitable for 32A, clearly marked on the lead!

 

[Engineer54]

Any advice on make for these E54? And should I just get a selection of ferrules?

CK ratchet crimping tools are pretty reasonable for the money. There's no need to go over board, the real expensive crimp tools, are what you would use on aerospace and military type installations, and then they normally provide the crimping tools, which will be tested at regular intervals for compliance....

Most ratchet crimp tools will have an adjustable dial that adjusts final pressure on the ferrule or other crimps....

 

[dingledong]

use proteus . . .no earth lead .one less wire to worry about

 

[Darkwood]

If I meet him I'd ask him why the 40A RCBO only has a neutral lead suitable for 32A, clearly marked on the lead!

I take it your not used to cable ratings in tri rated (fine wire) they usually are alot higher ccc rated like for like with standard stranded cables hence it often looks undersized, but not clear or ever seen a 32amp label on a 40amp breaker its most likely a i.d. error, it just dosn't compute... computer says no! :thumbs_down:

 

[CrazyScozzese]

I take it your not used to cable ratings in tri rated (fine wire) they usually are alot higher ccc rated like for like with standard stranded cables hence it often looks undersized, but not clear or ever seen a 32amp label on a 40amp breaker its most likely a i.d. error, it just dosn't compute... computer says no! :thumbs_down:

I am not sure that at 50hz fine stranded makes much difference to current handling capacity?

Is it not more related to the shortness of the cable, and the rules of integrated cables not requiring the same 'over rating' that we have to work to with other cables? The environment is more or less fixed, no sheath, no conduit, no thermal insulation, and the safety device is a dead cert!

Skin effect is negligible at 50hz as it is about 8mm deep, and as the strand are not insulated they short out along their length thus negating a lot of any skin effect that may be present. Stranded cable, at small sizes more often takes up more space than solid core of the same CSA due to the unavoidable spaces between the cores.

I hope this was what you meant, otherwise I should have gone to bed.

 

[yellowvanman]

I take it your not used to cable ratings in tri rated (fine wire) they usually are alot higher ccc rated :thumbs_down:

I am actually! Although thats nothing to do with markings on the cable itself

 

[ste mac]

Can the strands be tinned together with solder instead of using a crimp?

 

[wildgoose]

Just spoke to a helpful man on the MK Technical desk and he said:-

1, Shortening the leads is not a problem but recommend a re-ferrule on cable ends.
2, This will not effect warranty of the MK RCBO".

 

[BillyTheSparks]

Lots of excellent info here!

Which crimpers would be best for me? I've seem some which are CK (bootlace ferrule) and then I've seem that are just ferrule crimpers which make a square/rectangular end, but these were £200+ which I'm not prepared to pay!
Would normal crimppers with pin/pointed crimps be ok?

 

[Engineer54]

That's the sort of money you pay for knipex crimpers, not CK crimpers. Your obviously not looking very far, there are plenty of ratchet crimpers out there for around 20 to 25 quid...