Rcd Needed For An Outside Light?

[Benny_Boy]

well i accepted what wire puller said, bearing in mind you may need an answer by tomorrow, then went to the reg, which as you say doesnt seem to apply, so am doing further research. At the moment gonna stick by myoriginal post but non commital til I get an answer from somewhere.

answers by thursday on a postcard please!

seriously though, thanks for taking the time to look at this. It's a bit of a puzzler.
I'd just like to have something definitive, so I can guarantee that what I'm doing complies.

Kids will no doubt be up in about 4 hours so I'm going to catch 40.

Thanks again
Ben

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Sorry guys,should have been more specific
Reg 411.3.3 states where additional protection by means of RCD is required....(ii) states mobile equipment not exceeding 32a for use outdoors. There is no mention of RCD protection to fixed equipment for use out doors.
I added in the TT bit as obviously in a TT system all circuits are going to be RCD protected.
Not sure where you are getting the requirement to rcd all equipment outdoors from .....is there a reg or something else I've missed?

Fixed equipment in normal,non special locations, outside, is not mentioned specifically in the regs as far as I can see. If there were any special requirements for additinal protection it would be there,whats not in there is just as significant as whats in there.

EDIT....re the competant person scheme 'preference'....as far as I'm concerned they can only justify a preference if they can back it up with a reg!!

 

[Benny_Boy]

I've just found the following in chapter 5.7 (Outdoor lighting and power, sheds and garages) in the electrician's guide to the building regs (little green book)

"5.7.4 Fixed Equipment

Fixed equipment in the garden such as permanent lighting attached to buildings, should be securely erected with all cables buried or securely fixed to permanent structures clear of the ground. All insulated class II equipment is recommended where possible. Outdoor fixed equipment is not required to be protected by an RCD. A disconnection time of 0.4 seconds is required."

I think that wraps that up.

 

[Johno]

if i were you, i would explain that a new cu was necessary, and don't waste your time on cuting corners. though obviously a new cu can open a can of worms, but hopefully all ok.

 

[Jason Smith]

if i were you, i would explain that a new cu was necessary, and don't waste your time on cuting corners. though obviously a new cu can open a can of worms, but hopefully all ok.

Sorry Johno, gonna take you to task on this one. I agree that a new CU is the ideal scenario, but there is no evidence of cutting corners here, which as I am not as sensitive as others,may however be seen as a tad derogatory. The electrician just needs to add a simple lighting point and has received good advice on how to. I have learnt from this post, and the customer has also benefited from the knowledge and experience on this forum in that they are not left with a sudden estimate for hundreds of pounds when all they wanted is an outside light. My opinion, sibmitted with respect.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Well said Jason....there does not appear to be any major issues with the existing installation other than it is old and not up to date....which doesnt mean a simple external light can not be added safely. This sort of sledgehammer to crack a nut advice will just make the client feel you are trying to rip them off.
Agree there would be nothing wrong with advising the client of the advantages of updating their installation though.

 

[Johno]

My post wasn't meant with any disrespect, I had only answered the original question and hadn't read the rest of the posts. Reading it now i appreciate how it may of seemed. I may be wrong, but i was under the impression that you cannot add to a circuit that does not already comply with the current regs and this is why i thought a cu change would be the best option.

 

[Jason Smith]

no worries mate, I believe that as long as a circuit is no WORSE in terms of compliance after we have worked on it , then all is well. I know we install to the 17 now, but loads of our work is obviously on older systems. That one i have just quoted seems to make absolute common sense, other wise everytime they enforce a new edition on us all the countrys wiring systems would have to be updated to some extent before any work on them could be done.IMHO.

 

[Johno]

Some people have said that as long as the additional work complies then is ok, but others say that as the addition uses the existing circuit then, in a way, the addition doesn't comply. Though I agree with the first (in most cases), if in any doubt I tend to cover my behind.

 

[griswald1]

hi,im new on here. your question about needing rcd protection for outside light. appreciate to know what the outcome was. i have someone with old cu with no rcd protection and they want outdoor light fitted.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

There is no requirement for fixed equipment outdoors to be RCD protected.

If you scan through this thread the regulations concerned are quoted.

 

[griswald1]

many thanks,

 

[mikeymoo]

I always had it drilled into me by my college Lecturer When in doubt RCD RCD RCD RCD. The cost of a RCD FCU is so low that its not worth Risking

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I always had it drilled into me by my college Lecturer When in doubt RCD RCD RCD RCD. The cost of a RCD FCU is so low that its not worth Risking

Thats a decision for the installer but it should be made clear that it is not a requirement of 7671 contrary to popular belief.

 

[Benny_Boy]

I always had it drilled into me by my college Lecturer When in doubt RCD RCD RCD RCD. The cost of a RCD FCU is so low that its not worth Risking

I think relying on such conventions makes one lazy, it's much more important to know, and install to, the current regulations. That said there's no harm in additional safety if the price difference is negligible I suppose.