RCD needed With minor works?

[drzsta]

Hi,

Just a few questions as I rarely do any domestic work.

I'll be changing a few single sockets to doubles and also adding a few extras on the existing ring. Currently has no RCD protection and common sense suggest that because I'll be adding sockets I should add RCD protection?

Downlights will also be removed and replaced with standard pendants and switch plates changed back to white. Although cables will probably be <50mm in walls I'm doing "maintenance" and as such no need to RCD circuit?

Would my thinking on these two points be correct, none of the work is notifiable but I wish to stay the right side of the regs if possible.

 

[Wilko]

Hi - I think it's changes to the fixed wiring that triggers the compliance update ... added outlets would need RCD protection (411.3.3i) and the whole circuit would need protection (preferred option anyway) if new cable is added buried in walls less than 50mm (522.6.202). Hope that helps

 

[SparkyChick]

Beaten by Wilko this time... what he said

 

[soms]

Would my thinking on these two points be correct, none of the work is notifiable but I wish to stay the right side of the regs if possible.

My understanding is that this work does not require notification to the Local Authority Building Control under Part P of the Building Regulations. You get this online and look at the section for 'non-notifiable work'.

However I have far too little experience to comment on what your obligations are under for such work under BS7671.

 

[SparkyChick]

The question of whether it's notifiable... are any of the new sockets in the kitchen or served by a circuit that also serves the kitchen or passes through the bathroom zones?

We're still covered by the 2010 version of part P in Wales, so my take on it is if they are in the kitchen or they affect the ring circuit that supplies the kitchen or pass through a zone, it's EIC+notification time. If they aren't, a MEIWC will suffice and there is no notification.

For the accessory replacements (providing no wiring changes take place), a MEIWC may be issued but it isn't notifiable.

That's my take on it, happy to be corrected if I've got it wrong because I don't want to end up on the wrong side of the regs/law either.

 

[Octopus]

Changing sockets.... I wouldn't issue a MWC.

Altering an existing ring to add sockets is MWC plus add RCD, and check bonding and earthing.

Remove downlights and fit pendents is MWC

 

[Midwest]

Agree with both posts above, although not with EIC for additional sockets on kitchen RFC, but that might be a Welsh thing.

As regards RCD for replacement sockets, like for like replacement no, but changing single to twin, I guess technically yes for new RCD. Replaced a FCU for socket on kitchen refurb' recently, advice from scheme was that is not like for like and can't be classified as 'maintenance', so installed an RCD socket. Which took me some convincing of customer, when I replaced and old twin socket for new plain twin socket in the same room

No RCD on lighting, same sort 'maintenance' thing.

Both do not require notification in England, not sure about Wales (why are things so unnecessarily difficult!)

 

[SparkyChick]

This is from the page 8 of the 2010 (Online version) of Part P, which is still in force in Wales.

Table 1, work that is not notifiable:-

"Work that is not in a kitchen or special location and does not involves a special installation and consists of:-

Adding lighting points (light fittings and switches) to an existing circuit
Adding socket-outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit"

So with cunning use of double negatives... adding sockets/spurs in a kitchen is notifiable.

And quite frankly, it's a pain in the posterior because the 2013 version which only applies to England is what introduces Third Party Certification, which I'd like to do but can't. That said, it does mean that because the rules are stricter here in Wales, there are potentially more chances for work, but only if peeps know they should get a spark in to do it.

 

[SparkyChick]

Changing sockets.... I wouldn't issue a MWC.

Altering an existing ring to add sockets is MWC plus add RCD, and check bonding and earthing.

Remove downlights and fit pendents is MWC

The MWC for the downlight to pendant conversion... is that because it's not a straight like for like change? Or are you basing that on changing the circuit structure back to a normal lighting circuit (with the loop in each rose)?

In the case of downlights... how far would you go with the like for like element? Same make/model no MWC, different make/model MWC?

 

[Midwest]

The 'maintenance' rub for sockets not needing RCD protection, is because any new socket outlet (411.3.3 etc) needs RCD protection per se, so you have a 'get out of jail card' replacing maintenance wise, like for like.

Lighting circuits per se, only require RCD protection in special locations, and cabling 50mm etc (and passing through zones). Unless your in Wales of course, where a kitchen is also a special location. So swopping a downlight for a pendant doesn't require RCD protection, IMO.

Confusing, isn't it, Dutchy? (Zulu 1964!)

 

[Wilko]

Reminds me of a Monty Python sketch from the Meaning of Life ...

 

[Des 56]

the 2013 version which only applies to England is what introduces Third Party Certification, which I'd like to do but can't.
That said, it does mean that because the rules are stricter here in Wales, there are potentially more chances for work, but only if peeps know they should get a spark in to do it.

The rules may be stricter for us here,however,enforcement and to a large extent actual knowledge that part P exists is negligible amongst the ordinary folk

Even where it is known to exist,the non enforcement meant it was never taken on board by the public and to a very large extent Building control inspectors
As long as you adhere to BS7671 the part p business (other than the occasional solicitor for a house sale) is "almost" a non issue