rcd/rcbo install advice please

[coxy84]

Iv been doing some work at a bar/small hotel with a flat , all circuits go back to a 60way 3phase panel.
I noticed yesterday that unlike the socket circuits which were covered by rcbo's the lighting/cookers/tv/cctv cameras booster curcuits were only protected by mcbs.

the whole installation is only about 2years old if that and it is my understanding thats these circuit should have some form of rcd protection due to being installed in walls or partitions at a depth less than 50mm.

I noted this to the owner and was concerned as he wanted the installation to be up scratch.

but as there is a considerable cost involved eg. 25 rcbos @£30 each i would like some opinions on wether this is nessasary.

and if this is nessasary would this idea had be a acceptable and a cost effective solution, by installing a new smaller single phase duel rcd split load panel next to and fed from main DB,
And then relocating the above curcuits to new db?

 

[malcolmsanford]

If it was done 2 years ago there should be an EIC for the installation is there one?

As you were installing a new circuit as long as what you did conforms to the BRB then your ok. It's commendable for you to point out to the customer the need for RCD protection for buried cables and tell him your willing to quote him to change the existing installation. In the end though he dosen't have to do anthnig providing he dosen't want to. If the installation is only 2 years old and there is an EIC you could get the customer to recontact the original electrician to come and sort it out.

If there isn't any paperwork then there isn't much recourse open to the customer. Though I doubt wether the licencing act would not conform to recommendations of the BS 7671-2008 it is best to check if there isn't a vague regualtion by them that supercedes the 17th edition. Would feel pretty sheepish if there was one

 

[Jimmyb]

I think it only applys in domestic but im not sure, i would go the rcbo route as you wouldnt want more than one set off lights going off if theres a fault

 

[coxy84]

i dont belive that the owner has the EIC as there had been a dispute with the original electrician.
i couldnt seem to find any thing in the licencing act.

 

[coxy84]

I think it only applys in domestic but im not sure, i would go the rcbo route as you wouldnt want more than one set off lights going off if theres a fault

so for commercial installs rcd protection is not needed in curcuits such as lighting? i think its worth noteing that on these lighting circuits there are on-suite bathrooms.

 

[malcolmsanford]

No the BRB applies to all Electrical Installations be it commercial or domestic. And yes if your working to the 17th the en-suite bathrooms would have to have their circuits RCD protected, as I assume they have either a bath or shower in them.

Also if the cable comes under 522.6.7 then that also needs RCD protection. Where the former sparks might have wanted to get away with it, is under the guise of under supervision of a skilled or instructed person.

The bottom line to this is there is no documented evidence of when the installation was done. If there was a contract and receipt from the former sparks and it was in the time of the 17th then the customer might have some recourse. As you say though there is some dispute and after hearing that I would probably walk away. Don't get involved with this, you may find if you recommend that RCDs should have been installed. the hotel may want to drag you into this dispute.

Just document and certify your work, you could point out the lack of RCD protection quoting a few regs and leave it at that

 

[coxy84]

thanks melcolm
what you have just pointed out is what i already thought. i think i will complete my works and make a reomendation to the owner that it does not comply with bs 7671:2008 and should be corrected. if asked i will provide a quote for the works as i wouldnt want to leave the install knowing that it didnt comply and i didnt offer to help correct it. the owner is a nice guy and i do feel he has been left in a bad situation. and if i dont do it someone else will. saying that i will be taken photo evidence to prove what the install was like before i carry out any futher work.

 

[malcolmsanford]

thanks melcolm
what you have just pointed out is what i already thought. i think i will complete my works and make a reomendation to the owner that it does not comply with bs 7671:2008 and should be corrected. if asked i will provide a quote for the works as i wouldnt want to leave the install knowing that it didnt comply and i didnt offer to help correct it. the owner is a nice guy and i do feel he has been left in a bad situation. and if i dont do it someone else will. saying that i will be taken photo evidence to prove what the install was like before i carry out any futher work.

Sensible way to go my man,