Reccomendation for Roller shutter Controller

[Cyberprog]

Hi All,
I'm a Network/Software consultant, but I also do Access Control, and consult on basically anything else electrical! Run into a fun one at a clients, they have a 3-phase roller shutter which seems to be controlled (having had a peek into the box) by a pair of contactors with an overload between them. As near as I can tell, the motor is doing it's own limit stuff (there appears to be a limit switch in the wiring, but it's hanging to one side with the switch taped closed!) but they're not able to secure the unit from being operated that easily as it's just contactors. They'd also like to be able to tag the net2 and control the door from outside (which doesn't have a rear door, and it's a bit of a trek round the back!). I've seen various roller shutter controllers on eBlag, but none are three phase, and my usual friendly sparks has never installed anything like that, so can't reccomend one.
Has anyone had the pleasure? Client's a cheapskate (aren't they all?) so is after a cheap solution to the problem. I know these things exist, just haven't a scooby doo as to where to look, and most roller shutter companies want a service contract and half an arm and the full leg to install one as none of them are based locally (and all the local ones CBA to quote me!).
Any help would be appreciated!
Cheers
Alex.

 

[bugsy]

The controllers control the contactor coils,

 

[Deleted member 26818]

You just rig auxilary buttons to the coil feeds, doubling up the normal conductors.

 

[Cyberprog]

The existing box just has buttons that push in the centre of the contactor though. I'm really looking for a box of tricks that has a pickle and an e-stop on it, then the pickle can be re-wired to some IP rated buttons, and I can make my net2 link the e-stop in and out to control who can operate the shutter.

 

[Engineer54]

Normally all roller shutter door installations, especially in commercial/industrial environments should incorporate a host of operational safety features incorporated in the control circuit. There should also be an EM Stop push button on the inside of the building either on the control panel or separate, but always close to the door position..

 

[Cyberprog]

Yep, mind you this one doesn't move that quick and the operator would be right next to it and able to let go fairly quickly! It's not a fully automatic door if that's what you're wondering! Though that said, that still wouldn't prevent the net2 from working on the eStop circuit as we'd be engaging the eStop to prevent the door from working.

 

[shiner]

you can get controls board at a reasonable cost. You have an old style starter that operates the shutter. the coil is more than likely switching 240V. So your access control can either go via a relay or if you update the controls a clean switching pair will do.
You can also add Ip rated push buttons or a key switch.

 

[Knobhead]

The existing box just has buttons that push in the centre of the contactor though. I'm really looking for a box of tricks that has a pickle and an e-stop on it, then the pickle can be re-wired to some IP rated buttons, and I can make my net2 link the e-stop in and out to control who can operate the shutter.

What in the name of god do you refer to as a pickle?

 

[Cyberprog]

you can get controls board at a reasonable cost. You have an old style starter that operates the shutter. the coil is more than likely switching 240V. So your access control can either go via a relay or if you update the controls a clean switching pair will do.
You can also add Ip rated push buttons or a key switch.

As near as I can see, it doesn't have a coil - the buttons push the centre of the contactor in manually.

I'm probably using the wrong word here to describe them, but they look, smell and taste like contactors, just seem to be lacking the coils to pull in electronically hence my problem!

What in the name of god do you refer to as a pickle?

A pickle is a term we use in the entertainment industry, it refers to a motor controller that is just a box on a cable with buttons on it. Usually bright yellow, e-stop at the top, sometimes they hang from crane beams and so on, you've probably seen one...

 

[shiner]

the coil is at the back of the contactor you will not be able to see it clearly. from your description it sounds like a gaorg starter.

 

[Cyberprog]

Still doesn't allow me to control it from the outside that easily though. Thanks for your help anyway everyone, I'm going to doorstep a few shutter companies and see if I can get some sense from them that way!

 

[shiner]

cyberprog i work for a shutter company. and been in the industry for 13 years. the best way from the out side is a fob system like your paxton net 2 or a key switch, or another alternative is by remote control.

 

[Cyberprog]

cyberprog i work for a shutter company. and been in the industry for 13 years. the best way from the out side is a fob system like your paxton net 2 or a key switch, or another alternative is by remote control.

Remote control is out, as the client has a high turnover of temporary staff and controls access using the net2 as if someone's contract ends, so does their access! This side of things I've already taken care of, but it's the actual box of tricks that controls the roller shutter that I need!

 

[Engineer54]

All the roller shutter doors i've had on projects, have been supplied with an ''up/off/down'' key switch, when operation from outside is required/specified...

 

[Cyberprog]

All the roller shutter doors i've had on projects, have been supplied with an ''up/off/down'' key switch, when operation from outside is required/specified...

Yep, I'm willing to bet most of those are either single phase, or they're linking back to a control box - they're obviously also childishly simple to break into as you just have to prise the thing off the wall with a suitable hammer and link the appropriate wires together! This is obviously why we like using things like the Net2 to control access, as an open/close button doesn't need any physical security, the Net2 can't be forced in any way (as the readers are "dumb") and the buttons do nothing till the net2 takes off the e-stop.