Regulations around stairwell wiring

[An Buachaillín Bán]

Hi all,

I have two questions regarding wiring and containment on commercial property stairwells in Ireland.

We are currently wiring a 3 story pub-to-be. We plan on using plastic conduit- surface from top stairwell landing to the bottom landing. I can't find anything to the contrary in the regs about it, but it was remarked to me by the fire alarm guy today that we cannot use plastic conduit, as it is an emergency stairwell/escape route. He said it has to be steel conduit. I know fire alarm cabling and containment has to be steel or have steel supports or saddles. But what about electrical wiring?

Second question, relates to the same stairwell.

There are 3 doors leading onto the stairwell. Ground floor, 1st and 2nd floor. We will have lights on every landing, but to be brought on by a sensor when you come through each of the 3 doors, which will bring on all lights on the stairwell. At first I thought of looping the sensors from 2nd to 1st to GF and then from outgoing on GF to lights. Is there a better solution or a certain fitting you could recommend?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Rockingit]

I have no specific knowledge of EIRE regulations regarding this - there are some on here who do, I’m sure - however if this were U.K. mainland then it would indeed be the case that all cabling over escape routes requires metal support to prevent collapse. What that looks like is open to discussion - metal saddles over PVC conduit does arguably stop cables from falling if the conduit has melted, same as a metal P clip,

As for the light switches - sounds to me like a simple job of triggering a contactor and timer.

 

[littlespark]

No doubt emergency lighting comes into it somewhere.

There is a huge cost implication between steel conduit and pvc.

Is there an architect involved? A specification to follow? I would reckon a fire risk assessment has been done, so ask the customer.

 

[baldelectrician]

When I do this I wire such lights in FP200 white cable.

I usually buy 3 core and earth 1.5 FP 200 for lights as this lets me add photocells / sensors anywhere along the route and add in extra sensors at any point.

Make sure you buy decent sensors like Sentinel. I prefer to keep the lights and sensors seperate - I don't usually buy lights with built in sensors as the light may not be powerful enough to power many other lights.

 

[davesparks]

When I do this I wire such lights in FP200 white cable.

Why fire performance cable and not something a bit more mechanically strong, and cheaper, like a BS8436 cable?

 

[baldelectrician]

Why fire performance cable and not something a bit more mechanically strong, and cheaper, like a BS8436 cable?

Just personal preference, have used BS8436 cable on occasion

 

[davesparks]

I have no specific knowledge of EIRE regulations regarding this - there are some on here who do, I’m sure - however if this were U.K. mainland then it would indeed be the case that all cabling over escape routes requires metal support to prevent collapse. What that looks like is open to discussion - metal saddles over PVC conduit does arguably stop cables from falling if the conduit has melted, same as a metal P clip,

It's not just metal support to prevent collapse, in escape routes the cable and containment must also meet requiems for being non-flame propagating and I'm sure plastic conduit meets this requirement.

 

[bennie]

Hi all,

I have two questions regarding wiring and containment on commercial property stairwells in Ireland.

We are currently wiring a 3 story pub-to-be. We plan on using plastic conduit- surface from top stairwell landing to the bottom landing. I can't find anything to the contrary in the regs about it, but it was remarked to me by the fire alarm guy today that we cannot use plastic conduit, as it is an emergency stairwell/escape route. He said it has to be steel conduit. I know fire alarm cabling and containment has to be steel or have steel supports or saddles. But what about electrical wiring?

Second question, relates to the same stairwell.

There are 3 doors leading onto the stairwell. Ground floor, 1st and 2nd floor. We will have lights on every landing, but to be brought on by a sensor when you come through each of the 3 doors, which will bring on all lights on the stairwell. At first I thought of looping the sensors from 2nd to 1st to GF and then from outgoing on GF to lights. Is there a better solution or a certain fitting you could recommend?

Thanks in advance.

You could use fittings with microwave sensors in that way you don't need a seperated sensor on each floor and they wouldn't have to be on the same circuit, if that would make the install easier. As for the conduit, it doesn't have to be metal but plastic with metal saddles isn't the best look.

 

[loz2754]

plastic with metal saddles isn't the best look

How about these?

 

[Risteard]

Hi all,

I have two questions regarding wiring and containment on commercial property stairwells in Ireland.

We are currently wiring a 3 story pub-to-be. We plan on using plastic conduit- surface from top stairwell landing to the bottom landing. I can't find anything to the contrary in the regs about it, but it was remarked to me by the fire alarm guy today that we cannot use plastic conduit, as it is an emergency stairwell/escape route. He said it has to be steel conduit. I know fire alarm cabling and containment has to be steel or have steel supports or saddles. But what about electrical wiring?

Second question, relates to the same stairwell.

There are 3 doors leading onto the stairwell. Ground floor, 1st and 2nd floor. We will have lights on every landing, but to be brought on by a sensor when you come through each of the 3 doors, which will bring on all lights on the stairwell. At first I thought of looping the sensors from 2nd to 1st to GF and then from outgoing on GF to lights. Is there a better solution or a certain fitting you could recommend?

Thanks in advance.

I would ask the fire alarm installer to justify his claim. That said, personally I think that metallic containment would be a better solution for all of the reasons mentioned in response to your post. But that's not to suggest that non-metallic containment would be in breach of any Rule.

 

[An Buachaillín Bán]

You could use fittings with microwave sensors in that way you don't need a seperated sensor on each floor and they wouldn't have to be on the same circuit, if that would make the install easier. As for the conduit, it doesn't have to be metal but plastic with metal saddles isn't the best look.

Thanks Bennie. Yeah I have Oslo microwave sensor 2D type fittings which I was hoping to use. So permanent supply to all this would suffice? Thanks