Regulations for using pyro

[Guest 004]

I know. Good point. I do feel a sense of pride when I do it right (aaahhh the simple joy of being an aspiring tradesman ).

Also, isn't Pyro meant to be better than FP200? That is, if FP200 Gold is the best type of FP [is it?]...
Seeing as Pyro is copper covered and mineral-insulated whereas FP is not, wouldn't Pyro be superior as it doesn't melt in most fires?
I heard that FP is only good for 30 minutes but Pyro lasts much longer.

it is just down to cost, and thats labor wise not materials

 

[Deleted member 26818]

They still use uninsulated Pyro at the Barbican.

 

[Engineer54]

Also, isn't Pyro meant to be better than FP200? That is, if FP200 Gold is the best type of FP [is it?]...Seeing as Pyro is copper covered and mineral-insulated whereas FP is not, wouldn't Pyro be superior as it doesn't melt in most fires? I heard that FP is only good for 30 minutes but Pyro lasts much longer.

MICC is far superior to FP200 of any kind!! It's also always the cable of choice on any prestige project for fire alarms, etc. It was extensively used for station and tunnel fire alarm systems on the MTRC in Hong Kong. Where it was also used for station power and lighting installations, along with there main and sub-main distribution systems, in both multi and single core form, utilising high temp (250 C sealing pots/tails) terminations.

Installed correctly these installations will last a life time and a half and are virtually indestructible, corrosion being the last of it's problems when further protected by a PVC outer sheath in normal temperature (70 C) situations. It's usually specified as the cable of choice in ancient church installations and the like. Many petrochem installations refineries etc can be almost exclusively wired in MICC....

By the way, MICC cable is not straightened by the use of plastic/rubber hammers, but by purpose made adjustable wheel straighting devices, that you run along the cable prior to fixing. The rubber hammers were purely for dressing purposes. MICC installations can be visually a work of art when installed by experienced electricians...

 

[Guest 004]

MICC is far superior to FP200 of any kind!! stop living in the past FFS It's also always the cable of choice on any prestige project for fire alarms, etc. It was extensively used for station and tunnel fire alarm systems on the MTRC in Hong Kong. Where it was also used for station power and lighting installations, along with there main and sub-main distribution systems, in both multi and single core form, utilising high temp (250 C sealing pots/tails) terminations.

Installed correctly these installations will last a life time I recently tested over 500 properties in Hackney that was installed with MICC, was very lucky to get IR readings over 2 meg (which was specced), and 95% of them had to be rewired! and a half and are virtually indestructible, corrosion being the last of it's problems when further protected by a PVC outer sheath in normal temperature (70 C) situations. It's usually specified as the cable of choice in ancient church installations and the like. Many petrochem installations refineries etc can be almost exclusively wired in MICC....

By the way, MICC cable is not straightened by the use of plastic/rubber hammers, but by purpose made adjustable wheel straighting devices never really used them as they were crap IMO, used to pull off the drum nicely and installed correctly, that you run along the cable prior to fixing. The rubber hammers yep that it what I meant were purely for dressing purposes. MICC installations can be visually who wants to be looking at cables, they should be hidden a work of art when installed by experienced electricians...

ah here we go again

 

[DavidJ91]

...By the way, MICC cable is not straightened by the use of plastic/rubber hammers, but by purpose made adjustable wheel straighting devices, that you run along the cable prior to fixing.

It's always been the wheel straightening device for me. Never seen a rubber hammer in college used for straightening cable

 

[Guest 004]

seen many a spark struggle with that darn thing, never had to use it myself (in great lengths), as already said, I used to pull off the drum nicely, then install straight away. Got messy when it was not installed straight away.

thor hammer

this is the plastic version, although the one had was made purely of wood, on the hammer end it looked like the inside of a tree, where the wood had been wound round.

 

[Guest 004]

So why have JTL taken making off an MICC out of the AM2?

 

[giio]

you were posh,we used a bit of 2x1 and an ordinary hammer,

making the clips up for multi pyro runs was the most boring, setting out the runs on a piece of timber batten and clipping a section of pyros as they would be dressed (now theres an old word)on the run, then bending and drilling holes in the copper strip,then fixing them at about 1ft intervals using brass slot head screws,soul destroying stuff

 

[giio]

this is the plastic version,

if my memory serves me well they were some sort of nylon and the heads screwed on so you could change them when they were worn or cracked

 

[Des 56]

you were posh,we used a bit of 2x1 and an ordinary hammer,

making the clips up for multi pyro runs was the most boring, setting out the runs on a piece of timber batten and clipping a section of pyros as they would be dressed (now theres an old word)on the run, then bending and drilling holes in the copper strip,then fixing them at about 1ft intervals using brass slot head screws,soul destroying stuff

Yes Gio, you certainly know your Pyro to have those memories
It may though, be a skill being lost, reading so many peoples small knowledge of its installation

I have got to agree,a lot of its setting up and installation could be extra boring,dressing the cable/s or manufacturing clips
It was an art form when completed
Take a look at a finished job by a pyro novice and it could make your toes curl

Nice to work on but does have its downside

 

[Engineer54]

stop living in the past FFS ......I'm not paid to live in the past!! ....So i take it, you think FP200 is superior, or is it that any fool can throw it in??

life time I recently tested over 500 properties in Hackney that was installed with MICC, was very lucky to get IR readings over 2 meg (which was specced), and 95% of them had to be rewired! ......Can only surmise that these 500 properties must have been wired by apprentices and trainee's, novices and not qualified electricians..

adjustable wheel straighting devices never really used them as they were crap IMO, used to pull off the drum nicely and installed correctly ....Never seen MICC cable on drums of any kind, only in coils of 100/50 meters for the smaller sizes. Strange you
calling the wheel straighteners crap, as they are the only tool that can straighten MICC cable without deforming it!!

visually who wants to be looking at cables, they should be hidden ....How pray, ...are you going to hide cable runs (normally on cable tray) in a petrochem or industrial installations?? I take it your a domestic electrician, to come out with such a statement!!!

MICC is a cable that should never be underestimated, it may require more skill in it's installation than FP200 and other cabling systems, but it has several undeniable advantages over those other cables types. Advantages that in many circumstances far outweigh any disadvantages MICC cable might have!!!

 

[malcolmsanford]

The 500 properties were they 60's pre cast flats as MICC was the choice of installation in those days.

I have to admit I was suprised that you found so many installations giving you poor results, as E54 says you have to take into consideration the actual installation method, as I would expect MICC to last much longer than that. You also have the chance, espicially as it is domestic of over the years accessories being changed, one thing old MICC don't like is being pulled and pushed about. espicially at the terminations.

Where I live on the coast many an installation was done in MICC and over the years apart from one commercial outlet I did a PIR on, where I was getting 30-40 Mohm on several runs, I can't remember ever getting poor results, I do agree once you start to distrub MICC it can start to cause you problems, and with the advent of PIR's being done more often I can see MICC giving the tester a real headache when he starts to dimantle the installation for testing, even taking a socket face down, the act of pulling and then moving the face about and pushing it back into the box, will break up old set sealant and start to let moisture in. I can see in the next few years a lot of MICC being taken out and replaced.

 

[Guest 004]

stop living in the past FFS[/COLOR] ......I'm not paid to live in the past!! ....So i take it, you think FP200 is superior, or is it that any fool can throw it in??not my opinion mate, but it is the way things are going cheap and quick, pyro is not even in the AM2 any more, take it your too old to know what that is

life time I recently tested over 500 properties in Hackney that was installed with MICC, was very lucky to get IR readings over 2 meg (which was specced), and 95% of them had to be rewired! ......Can only surmise that these 500 properties must have been wired by apprentices and trainee's, novices and not qualified electricians.. dont know who wired them

adjustable wheel straighting devices never really used them as they were crap IMO, used to pull off the drum nicely and installed correctly ....Never seen MICC cable on drums of any kind, only in coils of 100/50 meters for the smaller sizes. Ah yes of course it was in coils, for the larger/longer sizes statement still stands Strange you
calling the wheel straighteners crap, as they are the only tool that can straighten MICC cable without deforming it!!

visually who wants to be looking at cables, they should be hidden ....How pray, ...are you going to hide cable runs (normally on cable tray) in a petrochem or industrial installations?? I take it your a domestic electrician haha never install, but I do test them, as the money is so good. I have worked extensively on LUL, CTRL, Glaxo, Power Stations , to come out with such a statement!!! on cabletray most would be hidden, was just trying to highlight the trainspotter aspect, but agree it is nice to dress the cables properly, on LUL, we used nut and bolt the clips.

MICC is a cable that should never be underestimated, it may require more skill in it's installation than FP200 and other cabling systems, but it has several undeniable advantages over those other cables types. Advantages that in many circumstances far outweigh any disadvantages MICC cable might have!!! FP is quick, and yes any monkey can install it, but that is what it all about these days, SPEED

 

[giio]

Yes Gio, you certainly know your Pyro to have those memories
It may though, be a skill being lost, reading so many peoples small knowledge of its installation

It was an art form when completed
Take a look at a finished job by a pyro novice and it could make your toes curl

Nice to work on but does have its downside

we never had any fancy stripping tools either,the self made t bar with the slot on top for stripping and getting the pot on was another vocation,crimping the seal using a screwdriver,the ringing tool you held with your pliars and the manual crimping tool,looking back at it with pride and realising you forgot to put the shroud on (a present day error too) then banging the old megger on, cawing the handle as fast as you could.
your right it was a work of art when completed but we had more time to do it. we called it in Scotland "making an end off"

http://www.tycothermal.com/assets/A...intenance Manuals/4330/H57987_IW_IOM_1206.pdf

 

[madmac]

seen many a spark struggle with that darn thing, never had to use it myself (in great lengths), as already said, I used to pull off the drum nicely, then install straight away. Got messy when it was not installed straight away.

thor hammer

this is the plastic version, although the one had was made purely of wood, on the hammer end it looked like the inside of a tree, where the wood had been wound round.

You mean a hide hammer, not wood. That's why it's wound like a tree. And by the way as Engineer 54 said these hammers are only used for final dressing in, not for straightening!