remedial work after an EICR was carried out on a residential property

[leep82]

Today i have been carrying out some remedial work after an EICR was carried out on a residential property. Aswell as the list of remedial works to be carried out i also had draft copies of the EICR which was carried out in November of last year.

When i started to read through the list of observations, which were carried out by another engineer, there were a large number of C1 and C2 items. Now the way i understood it and please tell me if im wrong is that any C1 observations have to be made safe at the time of discovery even if just a temporary fix. The way i had it explained to me was that imagine a doctor walking past someone in the street who had collapsed. Point being they wouldnt as they still have a duty of care to that profession, just as i do as an electrician if i see somthing that is dangerous. Reason i ask is that obviously the initial EICR was done 4 months ago.

Im still very much gaining experience when it comes to EICR so it was interesting to read through some of the observations made. Another one which caught my eye was the lack of isolation points ( key switches ) for the emergency lighting, this was given a C2. As part of the remedial work this is somthing else we are attending to although i think the code may be a little harsh? Would a C3 have been more appropriate in this instant?

 

[Anthony_wayne]

A lot would depend on your client. When you find a C1 you should let the client know asap, backing that up in writing. If you have a good rapport you may be asked to fix it and bill them for it. If it's just an EICR with no scope to carry out remedial work then there's not much else you can do. You really don't even have the authority to lock it off, although you should try to leave it isolated. The onus is on them then to do what ever they deem is appropriate, you've done your part.

On a side note the codes they issued seem a little harsh, I'd hazard a guess they were looking for remedial work, probably after going in too cheap on the EICR.

 

[Risteard]

As I said, I'd probably whip it off, check everything is ok and screw it back in place properly. Then it's been made safe and doesn't warrant a code, but probably worthy of a comment on a continuation sheet. If I could not screw it back properly, then I'd grade accordingly and report.

I don't disagree - just pointing out that if a socket outlet is hanging off the wall and left hanging off the wall then a C1 observation is certainly appropriate. Why it wasn't possible to just screw the socket to the wall and note this I'm not sure. (Certainly it should still be noted even if repaired so the client is aware of the dangers which were present.)

 

[mattwoott]

Hi Guys, not been around here in a good while thought i would have a look today and saw this thread. Anyway in my humble opinion, looking at what should happen on EICR's the onus is very much on us as the 'competent person' to remove all immediate dangers before continuing surely?

Quoting from best practice guide directly:

Where, during the course of inspection or testing, an immediate danger is found to be present in an installation (from an accessible exposed live part, for example), immediate action will be necessary to make it safe before continuing. However, the discovery of the dangerous condition should still be recorded in the report and classified accordingly.

As persons using the installation are at risk, it is not sufficient simply to draw attention to the danger when submitting the electrical installation condition report.

With this in mind what would happen if someone was injured 10 mins after the report was issued and they sued you? How would you feel if a child was injured or killed?

I know it is the homeowners responsibility but we do have a duty of care even if they won't pay or don't really get it that its dangerous to do more than just note it down on report.

Personally i have had to put right a lot of things that where never quoted for nor paid for just to leave an installation safe.

 

[hightower]

With this in mind what would happen if someone was injured 10 mins after the report was issued and they sued you? How would you feel if a child was injured or killed?

Your post talks about fixing immediate dangers, ie C1. But with your quote above in mind, how would you feel if a child was injured or killed 10 mins after the report because of a C2 fault? So does that mean you should go around fixing C2s for nothing too?

Okay, if it was an easy fix (like British Gas who whack a load of plastic over exposed live parts) fair enough. But if it's not so easy a fix why should we be expected to do it for nothing? The onus is on the property owner. Report, fit a danger notice and isolate if necessary, and move on. Otherwise it wouldn't be called an EICR, it would be called an EICRAFFFA.

 

[westward10]

Put in writing to the responsible person, get them to sign it and move on. The BPG is just that a Guide whereas 7671 actually states such an instance should be put in writing however it would be personal integrity to at least to try and remove the problem but this isn't always possible.

 

[SparkyChick]

I was trying to reply earlier whilst rewiring a hotel bathroom, but it was a carp job working through a 2 foot suspended ceiling tile at the top of my steps covered in cobwebs and fan gunk, so I was a bit irritated and my reply was a bit lacking.

@hightower and @westward10 have summed it up nicely

I particularly like the new acronym... one for the 18th you reckon?

 

[hightower]

I particularly like the new acronym... one for the 18th you reckon?

I was waiting for someone to come along and ask what it stands for, but it must be quite obvious.

 

[SparkyChick]

I was waiting for someone to come along and ask what it stands for, but it must be quite obvious.

Didn't take me long

 

[Pete999]

Didn't take me long

Tell me it's to early for quizzes and I have just taken my Meds

 

[SparkyChick]

Electrical Installation Condition Report And Fix For **** All

Or something like that

 

[hightower]

Or something like that

Nope, exactly like that

 

[Had8Lives]

I think with the example of the socket hanging off, if the client was not contactable and the face plate screw holes were not re tappable, I would remove the socket, put the wires into wagos and silicone a blank plate over the back box.

 

[Diddy]

Here is a similar scenario (Real life apparently - appeared on facebook electricians group).
Copy & Paste -
Customer today complaining about loss of power to property.
First few things I notice. The fishy smell coming from under the stairs, the thermal damage I spot on the Wylex rewireable fuse board when I turn my torch on and finally the swa that has been dogged into the board. The guy proudly tells me he did it on Saturday for his shed. "That's the proper stuff isn't it?" He proudly said.
As he is saying this a little flame shows itself inside the board, almost like someone had turned on a lighter inside it. I spot it inbetween the fuse carriers. Turn the main switch off and remove The cover. The fuse carriers crumbled in my hands. The cables have melted on to each other on pretty much every circuit.
"Can you repair it?"
"No. You need a new board buddy"
"That sounds very expensive. Can you just do a temporary repair till I can afford it? Use connector blocks or something?"
I tell him I won't as I wouldn't be able to sleep at night doing stuff like that.
"Come on mate I've got kids here!"
I told him he needed a new board and an eicr but I could rig up a spare garage unit and just get the lights and maybe a few sockets on but he refused because he didn't want to pay more than the hours call out. I fill out a danger notice and get him to sign it and take payment for the hours call out.
As I left he told me he's gonna call the police and trading standards on me.


Sorry for the long story but it's proper bugged me since I went to it. Am I a ---- for leaving him and his family without anything or has he pretty much called it on himself by being a have a go hero and pulling an swa in for his garage he was building and ----ing up the already knackered board?


The guys on the group basically said they would have done the same....Are we all in agreement too ?
I think the guy was correct in what he done.

 

[DPG]

The guy was left with no option. The only other thing I would do is take some pictures of it as it was just in case.

 

[westward10]

Nope I would have walked away and thought no more of it. He caused the problem not you, I don't fall for this I've got kids and family blah blah.