Remote location Consumer unit

[NellyManjaro]

I have recently been to a property and for love nor money couldnt find the consumer unit in the 1 bed flat. I eventually found out that it is in the cellar below the shop next door.
Now my question is about the location of said unit.
I have looked into it briefly and there doesn't seem to be anything that says you have to have access to it but need adequate access at the unit for maintenance etc.
The landlord doesn't want to spend money (they never do) but I said it would be much better to have the cu accessible form inside the 1 bed flat but would mean increasing the size of the cable to 35mm (current guess without calculating) with the appropriate protective devices and running it up to the flat roughly 10m. Obviously keeping the unit where it is currently is cheaper.
Can anyone offer any advice on what they would do in this situation and maybe something in the regs to back it up?

Any help is much appreciated. Just something I've never come across before.

 

[mattg4321]

Why 35mm2 for a 1 bed flat?!

 

[NellyManjaro]

Why 35mm2 for a 1 bed flat?!

Not calculated yet but the tails to the consumer unit will have to be bigger as they will have to run about 10m or so to the consumer unit 25mm if its 3m or less.... so 35mm was just a guess for now
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Why 35mm2 for a 1 bed flat?!

Sorry maybe it wasn't clear I mean the tails from the meter to the consumer unit will have to be upped in size

 

[SJD]

I'd be quite surprised if you need 35mm2 for a 1-bed flat, unless perhaps it is a dedicated cannabis farm ....

In fact depending on what is installed, you might not even need 25m2 - do you have a list of circuits or photo of this hidden consumer unit?

 

[snowhead]

Presumably the same Landlord owns the Flat, Shop and Cellar?

What reason were you there, new circuit, repair or??
Is the access to the Flat common with the Shop / Cellar?
Is it metered separately from the shop?
What route do the cables follow to get to the Flat, do they pass through the shop?
Would the "New tails" follow the same route?
Is the C.U old or new?

 

[davesparks]

Not calculated yet but the tails to the consumer unit will have to be bigger as they will have to run about 10m or so to the consumer unit 25mm if its 3m or less.... so 35mm was just a guess for now

I think you have misunderstood the regulations here. The meter tails must be no longer than 3m as this is the maximum length that the DNO allow.
If more than 3m is required then you must install a distribution circuit (submain) to feed the CU, you would normally install a switchfuse to feed the distribution circuit.

For a 1 bed flat the distribution circuit could almost certainly be fused at 45A without a problem, though you might choose to install 63A to give some headroom and a better chance of discrimination.

Installing larger tails does not negate the 3m limit on the length of the meter tails.

 

[NellyManjaro]

I'd be quite surprised if you need 35mm2 for a 1-bed flat, unless perhaps it is a dedicated cannabis farm ....

In fact depending on what is installed, you might not even need 25m2 - do you have a list of circuits or photo of this hidden consumer unit?

Off memory there was shower, cooker, ring main, lights and was upgrading the cu and installing smokes.. its more would you guys leave it down there or would you move it up into the flat?
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Presumably the same Landlord owns the Flat, Shop and Cellar?

What reason were you there, new circuit, repair or??
Is the access to the Flat common with the Shop / Cellar?
Is it metered separately from the shop?
What route do the cables follow to get to the Flat, do they pass through the shop?
Would the "New tails" follow the same route?
Is the C.U old or new?

There for a unit up-grade and smoke alarm installation
It is owned by the same landlord but the shop tenants have the only access to the cellar theres no way to get there if its shut.
2 meters 1 for everything including the flat and one for the flat alone
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I think you have misunderstood the regulations here. The meter tails must be no longer than 3m as this is the maximum length that the DNO allow.
If more than 3m is required then you must install a distribution circuit (submain) to feed the CU, you would normally install a switchfuse to feed the distribution circuit.

For a 1 bed flat the distribution circuit could almost certainly be fused at 45A without a problem, though you might choose to install 63A to give some headroom and a better chance of discrimination.

Installing larger tails does not negate the 3m limit on the length of the meter tails.

Yea possibly I know that there is a 3m maximum regardlessand would need its own protective device but was under the impression that you may have to increase cable size thats all.
Not done any calculations yet for the job but there is a shower, cooker, ring main, lights and going to be smoke alarms

 

[mattg4321]

I’d just get an experienced electrician in if I were you. Sounds like it’s going to be a disaster otherwise.

 

[FatAlan]

Mr Nagy has recently put a YouTube vlog re a switched fuse in shop below and running 16mm tails up to DB in flat.

 

[davesparks]

Off memory there was shower, cooker, ring main, lights and was upgrading the cu and installing smokes.. its more would you guys leave it down there or would you move it up into the flat?
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There for a unit up-grade and smoke alarm installation
It is owned by the same landlord but the shop tenants have the only access to the cellar theres no way to get there if its shut.
2 meters 1 for everything including the flat and one for the flat alone
[automerge]1596092734[/automerge]


Yea possibly I know that there is a 3m maximum regardlessand would need its own protective device but was under the impression that you may have to increase cable size thats all.
Not done any calculations yet for the job but there is a shower, cooker, ring main, lights and going to be smoke alarms

If discuss it with the customer and establish a sensible soloution befir estarting any work. In my opinion it should be accessible to the flat and if the customer refuses to address this issue I would probably turn down the work.

Your statement "but was under the impression that you may have to increase cable size thats all" is a little worrying if you are carrying out electrical work, you should surely understand how to calculate cable size and know that just going up a size is not a compliant soloution to anything.

 

[NellyManjaro]

If discuss it with the customer and establish a sensible soloution befir estarting any work. In my opinion it should be accessible to the flat and if the customer refuses to address this issue I would probably turn down the work.

Your statement "but was under the impression that you may have to increase cable size thats all" is a little worrying if you are carrying out electrical work, you should surely understand how to calculate cable size and know that just going up a size is not a compliant soloution to anything.

As I said at least 3 times before I haven't calculated anything yet.. i was under the impression that if it has been calculated previously to 25mm for example (I haven't seen the actual size of tails yet) then the chances are it would need increasing in size and a protective device within the 3m limit too... maybe I shouldn't be so vague on here... i only wanted to ask what other people would do in the situation. I agree with you if they don't want to move it into the flat then turn it down... he has actually asked me today how much it would be for an EICR instead because he now wants to sell due to all the problems lol providing everything else is OK... (which it won't be) I assume location of consumer unit would be a c3??

 

[pc1966]

I assume location of consumer unit would be a c3??

That is an interesting point!

Regulation 462.1 requires an installation to a means of isolation, and I would assume that has to be accessible by the owner or occupier of the installed location. Not being able to isolate the supply if an obvious fault is detected (or simply for any repair work) is looking like C2 territory to me.

Ladies and gentlemen, discuss...

 

[mattg4321]

As I said at least 3 times before I haven't calculated anything yet.. i was under the impression that if it has been calculated previously to 25mm for example (I haven't seen the actual size of tails yet) then the chances are it would need increasing in size and a protective device within the 3m limit too... maybe I shouldn't be so vague on here... i only wanted to ask what other people would do in the situation. I agree with you if they don't want to move it into the flat then turn it down... he has actually asked me today how much it would be for an EICR instead because he now wants to sell due to all the problems lol providing everything else is OK... (which it won't be) I assume location of consumer unit would be a c3??

How often have you ever seen 35mm2 cable in a domestic property, let alone a 1 bedroom flat?!

 

[magnoliafan89]

I would be thinking what if in an emergency you needed to isolate something it would be hard. Access would therefore be an issue surely?.

 

[NellyManjaro]

How often have you ever seen 35mm2 cable in a domestic property, let alone a 1 bedroom flat?!

Seriously... i have said numerous times i haven't seen it... 25mm was an example not job specific. I've not calculated anything yet
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I would be thinking what if in an emergency you needed to isolate something it would be hard. Access would therefore be an issue surely?.

That was what I thought but according to niceic its acceptable to be inaccessible... surely if this is the case its just very bad practice