Rented House wiring problems

[quest]

Hello everyone
My first post on here. I hope this is the right place for my question.

I'm looking for some advice regarding a rented property my daughter and family have just moved into.

During recent heavy rainfall roof leaks became apparent and the electrics tripped out.
There is an upfront Rccb and a main Rcd in the consumer unit. By elimination the fault was found to be in a lighting circuit.

The landlord eventually brought someone in to sort the problem.

This guy got the circuit working by removing two metal light fittings , replacing them with plastic roses and in his words "disconnecting the earth's".

Consequently the lighting circuit worked without tripping the rcd's. I have instructed my daughter to turn off the circuit at the consumer unit.

Your views as to a way forward with this problem would be much appreciated
Thanks
Roger

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

RCD or RCCB only pick up faults related to the earth, hence his reason to disconnect it, Perhaps not the ideal solution, but he is right in some respects as you don't have to earth class 2 accessories , ie plastic, if he removed the earths all together at those points, ie cant be retrieved then a notice needs to be placed at the consumer unit stating that circuit had no provision for earthing class 1 accessories.

Landlord should fix the roof and the repair carried out correctly

 

[telectrix]

what about the switches to these lights?. are they metal? if so , are they still earthed? if he's just disconnected the earth at the lights and left the rest of the earthing intact, then it's reasonably safe as a temporary measure. otherwise, what he ^^^^ said.

 

[Darkwood]

2 approaches here first it may be a misread conversation and he's fitted pendant drops that have an earth terminal connected but is all plastic, what he might have meant is the waterlogged metal fittings were tripping down to earth so he removed the earth fault situation by fitting plastic.... if indeed he has disconnected the earth from the circuit then yes you have done right leaving it powered down even more so if you have either metal fittings or switches.
You need to have a chat with the landlord to make sure what he actually meant.

 

[Des 56]

This guy got the circuit working by removing two metal light fittings , replacing them with plastic roses and in his words "disconnecting the earth's".

At a guess and it is only a guess

The guy was aware of why an Rcd trips out.he is aware of the location of the cause of that trippping,he removed the items that were tripping the Rcd,he explained why,in in all.he seemed to have a fair idea what he was up to

 

[telectrix]

hopefully, he's reported back to the landlord that it's a temporary measure and needs rectifying properly. if all fittings without earthing are classII, then i see no problem with energising the circuit and having lights. if water is getting to the switches, then that's a worry, even if they're plastic.

 

[vjsmarwick]

I agree what he has done may be right but if there is still water coming in what has been done to safeguard the lights or did he move them as well as change them because water and electrics don't mix even in plastic

 

[the oracle]

If the cpc's have been 'disconnected', is that just from those fittings, or has the circuit been 'broken', i.e. no cpc further on down?

There is a great bit of guidance freely available on the Electricity Safety Council website, one of their Best Practice guides deals with 'changing a fuseboard when there are no cpc's on lighting circuits', not exactly your daughters scenario but the theory is the same. Years ago we did not install cpc's on lighting, so many older properties still exist without a cpc on the lighting circuit, as lights were regarded to be something that was not commonly within reach or touched. However, we used to install the old style bakelite or ceramic based 'dolly switches', which were insulated. If there are ANY metal switch plates I would not be happy with it! The guy who came should have followed some of the guidance, done a risk assessment, posted warning notices and fully informed your daughter of the situation. (if that is what he intended). The Landlords Act states that the landlord MUST ensure the safety of the electrical installation, so perhaps if your daughter is concerned she could call the landlord and voice her concerns, and mention the Landlords Act?
One final thing, how old is the installation is there a current Periodic Inspection Report, or Condition Report, and by the way, did the guy leave a copy of the Minor Works Certificate that he should have issued?

 

[alasdairp]

No-one seems to be mentioning doing a proper insulation test on the circuit. If it were only the two metal light fittings then that might have cleared the fault - but i.m.h.o. it is more likely to have reduced the leakage to below the '30 mA' tripping current of the RCD. There may well still be several mA (well, theoretically up to '30') that could still kill (the old adage: "its volts that jolt but mills that kill") leaking into the building structure. After any significant ingress of water to electrics a proper HV insulation test should be carried out.

 

[Strima]

Without knowing the full extent of the installation (Cable runs, water ingress, damage etc) it's hard to make a comment. However if the removal of the CPC is only a temporary measure until the roof is fixed isn't exactly what I would call best pratice, but how do you define the time period for temporary, with winter coming the roof needs to be fixed ASAP and the circuit reinstated back to it's original design. There should also be warning notices placed on the CU relating to the work carried out and that only class 2 fittings are to be used until the CPC is put back.

I know it sounds a bit harsh but I would have disconnected the whole circuit and not reinstated it until the damage had been repaired, full testing done on the circuit before and afterwards.

The ESC offer advice, I know this link is about flooding however the basic rules remain the same, if there's water ingress, get it tested. News : Electrical Safety Council

As for using the ESC CPC missing on a fuseboard change, doesn't apply to this situation as the circuit was designed with a CPC and protective devices selected accordingly etc. It wouldn't hold water if the unfortunate happens and the whole thing goes to court.

 

[Des 56]

oracle quote
One final thing, how old is the installation is there a current Periodic Inspection Report, or Condition Report, and by the way, did the guy leave a copy of the Minor Works Certificate that he should have issued
?

I suspect,even if certification was produced,the certification would have gone to the person ordering the work
As tenants,they likely will have recievd none,whether produced or not

 

[Spazz]

Give him some time to fix the problem (say 1-2 months) then go to the landlord and request that the work is completely sorted.

There are some ways to force him to do the work

Stop rent - this may result in eviction so tread carefully
Contact the council to issue an enforcement notice - this may also result in eviction so tread carefully.

If he is a decent landlord then he should get it fixed no questions asked.

The fact he has disconnected the earth means the water has gotten in somewhere - a lamp holder or a cable and joined the L & E or N & E together.
If the cable is effected a rewire might be needed (depending on how much damage has been done) or a simple replacement of 1 cable.
If the ceiling rose had been damaged then just replace that - doubt this is the situation as he would not have needed to disconnect the earth - replacing the rose would of sorted the problem - so I am going with the cable!

Could be a non MF-JB filled with water but this should trip the MCB so doubt this as well

 

[quest]

Thank you to everyone who has commented, it is all really useful and a great help in deciding the way forward.

Cheers
Roger