Rewiring - Some questions, don't want to get done again...

[danny199]

Hi, after having a somewhat bad experience with a previous sparky and having to get the work fixed I'm after some advice with regards to some additional work I'd like done. I don't want to have similar issues. I'm not an electrician, I can wire a dash-cam and that is as far as I want to go, that said, I have been reading up in the hope of educating myself to what should be done so I can avoid problems next time.

We are planning to have the house rewired (all but kitchen, as that's a job for later...), built 1960s and still have the original cables. I have been reading up on stuff, given my last bad experience and have a few questions so I can make sure the work is done correctly this time.

1. We have a few of those rubbish paramount walls, with cardboard in the middle. Should I ask for metal conduit or is the mirroring rule enough?

2. We would like some outside lights to be put up, standard lantern light by the front door (sensor) and one by the back door that we can switch on from the kitchen/living room. They will need to drill through the cavity etc, should they use a conduit? Reading up, some say no, some say yes?

3. New boiler arriving soon, should this now be on a separate circuit/ring, or whatever its technically called?

4. Cables in loft, currently they are buried under insulation, attached to the rafters with metal clips. I have read that the cables get hot and lose power (OK, i know that's not the technical term) so should be laid above the insulation but some say it doesn't matter. If they are laid over the insulation, should they be in conduits to protect an idiot like me catching on them at a later date when putting junk up there. I can understand the sparky's preference to not spend hours up there attaching clips to rafters etc and just laying the cables over the insulation but is that the correct way?

5. Wired smoke alarms, really necessary? I was thinking just battery powered ones. If yes, should they be on a separate circuit or on a lighting circuit? Again, opinion seems divided.

I know that's a lot, but just want to make sure the work is done properly this time round, so I can avoid problems.

 

[Pete999]

Hi, after having a somewhat bad experience with a previous sparky and having to get the work fixed I'm after some advice with regards to some additional work I'd like done. I don't want to have similar issues. I'm not an electrician, I can wire a dash-cam and that is as far as I want to go, that said, I have been reading up in the hope of educating myself to what should be done so I can avoid problems next time.

We are planning to have the house rewired (all but kitchen, as that's a job for later...), built 1960s and still have the original cables. I have been reading up on stuff, given my last bad experience and have a few questions so I can make sure the work is done correctly this time.

1. We have a few of those rubbish paramount walls, with cardboard in the middle. Should I ask for metal conduit or is the mirroring rule enough?

2. We would like some outside lights to be put up, standard lantern light by the front door (sensor) and one by the back door that we can switch on from the kitchen/living room. They will need to drill through the cavity etc, should they use a conduit? Reading up, some say no, some say yes?

3. New boiler arriving soon, should this now be on a separate circuit/ring, or whatever its technically called?

4. Cables in loft, currently they are buried under insulation, attached to the rafters with metal clips. I have read that the cables get hot and lose power (OK, i know that's not the technical term) so should be laid above the insulation but some say it doesn't matter. If they are laid over the insulation, should they be in conduits to protect an idiot like me catching on them at a later date when putting junk up there. I can understand the sparky's preference to not spend hours up there attaching clips to rafters etc and just laying the cables over the insulation but is that the correct way?

5. Wired smoke alarms, really necessary? I was thinking just battery powered ones. If yes, should they be on a separate circuit or on a lighting circuit? Again, opinion seems divided.

I know that's a lot, but just want to make sure the work is done properly this time round, so I can avoid problems.

Danny I realise you have had some bad work done point :

You mentioned you wanted your House rewired minus the Kitchen, I guess this is a financial decision, well in my book its a bad decision on your part two lots of upheaval and disruption, take your time, it's a huge financial Burdon on your finances
I know but try and hang on until you can afford the complete rewire, once the cables are installed they can be made safe until you have the funds for completion.

As for should I ask for conduits etc, the installation will be down to the Contractor doing the work. which brings me to my next point.
Don't go for the cheapest quote, especially, if it's a lot less than the rest, this may indicate it's Dave from the pub quoting, after some readies for Beer and smokes.

Get two or three quotes, research the Guys quoting , ask for references from past customers, ask if it's possible to see previous work, some contractors will photograph completed work, for just this reason, I used to anyway.

Don't rush your decision take your time, discuss with Her in Doors if you have one, Draw up a contract with the winner of the quotation, decide on stage payments, first fix second fix etc and a small percentage held back for snagging purposes. Make sure you are issued with certificates (Electrical Installation Certificates) EICs, Part P, notifications, not to sure about that. if you are having any Gas work done , new boiler or something make sure you get the right documentation for that as well, if there are any works that are needed but not in the contact, make sure you keep a diary of times and materials, especially arrival and leaving times, just in case of any disputes, try and get hold of some deviation forms that you could issue to the contractor, keeping copies for your records, you could operate as a Project Leader but don't interfere just make note of your concerns for discussion if it warrants it, above all good luck you can always come on here for advice, should you need it.

 

[danny199]

Danny I realise you have had some bad work done point :

You mentioned you wanted your House rewired minus the Kitchen, I guess this is a financial decision, well in my book its a bad decision on your part two lots of upheaval and disruption, take your time, it's a huge financial Burdon on your finances
I know but try and hang on until you can afford the complete rewire, once the cables are installed they can be made safe until you have the funds for completion.

As for should I ask for conduits etc, the installation will be down to the Contractor doing the work. which brings me to my next point.
Don't go for the cheapest quote, especially, if it's a lot less than the rest, this may indicate it's Dave from the pub quoting, after some readies for Beer and smokes.

Get two or three quotes, research the Guys quoting , ask for references from past customers, ask if it's possible to see previous work, some contractors will photograph completed work, for just this reason, I used to anyway.

Don't rush your decision take your time, discuss with Her in Doors if you have one, Draw up a contract with the winner of the quotation, decide on stage payments, first fix second fix etc and a small percentage held back for snagging purposes. Make sure you are issued with certificates (Electrical Installation Certificates) EICs, Part P, notifications, not to sure about that. if you are having any Gas work done , new boiler or something make sure you get the right documentation for that as well, if there are any works that are needed but not in the contact, make sure you keep a diary of times and materials, especially arrival and leaving times, just in case of any disputes, try and get hold of some deviation forms that you could issue to the contractor, keeping copies for your records, you could operate as a Project Leader but don't interfere just make note of your concerns for discussion if it warrants it, above all good luck you can always come on here for advice, should you need it.

Hi, the kitchen needs to be totally ripped out, and will be all redone next year, with rewire. We are doing the rest of the bomb site at the moment.

Thanks for the advice, the first muppet wasnt the cheapest, had recommendation from the neighbour, NAPIT etc. Just a bad apple I guess.

Resistance is futile

 

[Midwest]

1) Don't know what a paramount wall is?
2) Putting a piece of plastic conduit through a wall is a good idea, but loads of sparks don't bother. Its not a game changer.
3) Boiler on a separate circuit, might mean you'll have heating in the middle of winter, if someone chops through your sockets circuit on a weekend. But again, no a game changer. Must stop using these football metaphors.
4) Lighting cables laid under loft insulation is not a concern, enough wiggle room in their rating factor. Supply for an electric shower, for example might be a different matter.
5) Wired smoke alarms are required by Part P regs, not so for a rewire of an existing property, but why wouldn't you? Some say put them on a lighting circuit, so you know if the power has gone off.

Re the kitchen, have the necessary cables installed to a convenient point above the kitchen ceiling, less hassle and mess for the future.

 

[Baddegg]

@Midwest.....paramount walls are the devils work think of the inside of cheap doors, cardboard lattice with a sheet of 12-15mm plasterboard either side...

 

[danny199]

1) Don't know what a paramount wall is?
2) Putting a piece of plastic conduit through a wall is a good idea, but loads of sparks don't bother. Its not a game changer.
3) Boiler on a separate circuit, might mean you'll have heating in the middle of winter, if someone chops through your sockets circuit on a weekend. But again, no a game changer. Must stop using these football metaphors.
4) Lighting cables laid under loft insulation is not a concern, enough wiggle room in their rating factor. Supply for an electric shower, for example might be a different matter.
5) Wired smoke alarms are required by Part P regs, not so for a rewire of an existing property, but why wouldn't you? Some say put them on a lighting circuit, so you know if the power has gone off.

Re the kitchen, have the necessary cables installed to a convenient point above the kitchen ceiling, less hassle and mess for the future.

Thanks for the advice.

Paramount wall... cardboard eggshell sandwich between plasterboard. It was a cheap way of building...

Smoke alarms.. Being a tight arse basically...

Good idea with kitchen. Though to be fair we are very lucky the fuse box is next to the kitchen, so when its done the sparky will have an easy time. We have a random orange cable running around the garden, not armoured etc that comes out the kitchen and around the garden... proper pikey job so that will be fun for him finding out where it comes from.
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@Midwest.....paramount walls are the devils work think of the inside of cheap doors, cardboard lattice with a sheet of 12-15mm plasterboard either side...

They are rubbish but not much we can do. Really don't want to replace and create more work.

And don't get them wet.. its like Gremlins.

 

[Midwest]

@Midwest.....paramount walls are the devils work think of the inside of cheap doors, cardboard lattice with a sheet of 12-15mm plasterboard either side...

Ohh that stuff. Round my lads house (circa 1980), they just stuck three sheets of plasterboard together.

 

[Baddegg]

Ohh that stuff. Round my lads house (circa 1980), they just stuck three sheets of plasterboard together.

Yep seen that in circa 2010 builds round here, disgraceful way to build a house

 

[danny199]

Yep seen that in circa 2010 builds round here, disgraceful way to build a house

2010? That's taking the ----.

 

[Midwest]

Don't skimp on smoke alarms, think about carbon monoxide detector for gas boiler as well.
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Yep seen that in circa 2010 builds round here, disgraceful way to build a house

We're posh round here now, wood cls battens, or metal frames.
[automerge]1567180777[/automerge]
Don't like this new merging thing @Dan

 

[danny199]

Don't skimp on smoke alarms, think about carbon monoxide detector for gas boiler as well.
[automerge]1567180718[/automerge]

We're posh round here now, wood cls battens, or metal frames.
[automerge]1567180777[/automerge]
Don't like this new merging thing @Dan

I think the wired ones it is then? I read you can connect them up so the all go off? What is best, the wired versions of radio ones?

 

[Andy78]

I think the wired ones it is then? I read you can connect them up so the all go off? What is best, the wired versions of radio ones?

A great idea to have mains powered ones when rewiring, just makes so much sense.
Choose Aico as a brand, and whether radio base or hard wired interlink they work out about the same costwise as the cost of a radio base and supply to each detector will balance out with the cost of running a cable between detectors.

 

[Dan]

Don't skimp on smoke alarms, think about carbon monoxide detector for gas boiler as well.
[automerge]1567180718[/automerge]

We're posh round here now, wood cls battens, or metal frames.
[automerge]1567180777[/automerge]
Don't like this new merging thing @Dan

Just edit your post then rather than clicking reply on everything. You've got 90 minutes to edit your last post.

 

[danny199]

A great idea to have mains powered ones when rewiring, just makes so much sense.
Choose Aico as a brand, and whether radio base or hard wired interlink they work out about the same costwise as the cost of a radio base and supply to each detector will balance out with the cost of running a cable between detectors.

Thanks, I was thinking what brand. What would you install in your own house (wired vs radio)?

 

[Andy78]

Thanks, I was thinking what brand. What would you install in your own house (wired vs radio)?

If fully rewiring then wired. Radio links are designed for when disruption to the building fabric is undesirable, say if just adding smoke alarms but no other work is being done, or for awkward cable runs.

I'd use the Aico 160 series with 10 year lithium battery backup.