"Ring does not loop test"

[tlangdon12]

Hello all,

I'm a Residential Landlord, not an electrician. (I'm hoping not to appear on Landlords from Hell!)

I've just had a PIR back with a Code 1 where the explaination is "Ring does not loop test". I know that they mean the Earth loop Impedence test (Zs for this circuit is shown as XX on their report sheet), but I'm not clear on why they have not been able to conduct this test.

Can anyone suggest any possible reasons for this and also say whether they should have given a clearer explanation or is " Ring does not loop test" sufficient?

I'll give them a call tomorrow, as there are a couple of other things I need to discuss - including scheduling repairs and a retest!

Thanks

Tony

 

[Dunc]

Personally i think that is an awful explanation and completely unhelpful. It could mean a over sensitive RCD (trips before loop test can be completed) or no earth continuity on the socket circuit. Do they give R1+R2 readings for all socket circuits and what are the RCD tripping times on x1 and x5?

 

[IQ Electrical]

It would suggest that there is no earth or 'CPC' at the outlet tested.

As it says 'ring does not loop test' then it would suggest no CPC continuity in the whole ring-rather unusual due to the CPC being fed from both ends of a ring.

 

[robsparky1975]

They have given a CODE 1.has the circuit been isloated and a danger notice put in place?,There is not enough information given to you the landlord,in laymans terms if neccessary,even if it means additional hand written sheets,to tell you why or what the problem may be and how to resolve any issues.

 

[SimpleSimon]

On the sheet is another box that says ring continuity. Three boxes (r1/rn/r2) any results in there?

 

[nickblake]

Tony firstly as you have come on here for advice im sure the comment hoping you dont appear on landlords from hell is not applicable in your case as you are seaking advice on a periodic ,Land lords from hell are just obliviouse to these ,

A good periodic should take several hours to complete lack of a Zs would be a Code 3 requires further investigation , this could be caused by a simple faulty socket , and testing a ring you do what we call anend to end continuity test r1 r2 rn R1R2 test then and insulation tests then the Zs test normally carried out on the same socket as the R1R2 test ,And RCD trip tests, ensure these tests have been carried out what were the other things regarding this inspection just for curiosity

 

[Octopus]

Do you have any way of scanning the report (with out the creators details) and publish it here so members could give a more accurate interpretation of the results?

My 2 pennies worth - "ring does not loop test" sounds very odd, which could suggest that the CPC's are not connected at the CU (did the inspector forget to reconnect them after he'd done the r2 test?)

 

[nickblake]

Was thinking that my self murdoch but was concerned that the company name may be indentified which we dont want if it could be done without tester or company names then thats ok

 

[tlangdon12]

Thanks for the replies to date.

I'm pretty happy with the report overall. I think they've spent a several hours undetaking the PIR, and they seemed to work efficiently so did everything within a few hours. Their report is clearly based on Appendix 6 of BS7671. They were selected on the basis of their NICEIC approval for PIR and PAT. (They also tested 15 Portable Appliances.)

The other items picked up were:
Code 1 - Lack of continuity on three ring final circuits (including the one where Zs could not be measured/tested)
Code 2 - "ID to light circuits not in place" I'm assuming this relates to the two gang switch at the foot of the stairs that has the dining room lights (Circuit 1) and Hall Light (Circuit 2) within the one switch.

It looks like there was no continuity on any conductor on the circuit with the Zs problem, so there are no figures for r1, rn, or r2 for this circuit!

What's disappointing is that two of the ring final circuits have not been touched since originally installed in 1995; the circuit with the Earth Loop Impedence problem has been extended since installation, so its an obvious candidate for problems. Still I guess this is what PIRs are for - installations do deteriorate over time

They weren't able to measure "R1+R2 All circuits" for the circuit with the Earth Loop Impedence problem, because of a lack of continutity. I suspect this is the reason for the difficulty measuring the Earth Loop Impedence - there are probably multiple breaks in the ring. Thanks to IQ Electrical for suggesting this.

RCD Tripping Times were 77ms at x1 and 12ms at x5 on all circuits.

The circuit was not isolated and no notice put in place. I had to receive the report to find out that this problem existed. (But the property is currently unoccupied and the contractor knew this, so may have omitted this step - perhaps unwisely).

I could scan the report in (and could hide the contractors name) but it's gettting late and I have to talk to them tomorrow anyway, so I'll not do this for the moment.

Thanks again

Tony

 

[WayneL]

.......and testing a ring you do what we call anend to end continuity test r1 r2 rn R1R2 test then and insulation tests then the Zs test normally carried out on the same socket as the R1R2 test ,

Hmmmm.......so R1+R2 at only one socket, no R1 + Rn and Zs at only one socket???

Interesting.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Hmmmm.......so R1+R2 at only one socket, no R1 + Rn and Zs at only one socket???

Interesting.

Why would you need to do an R1+Rn? It's not recorded and no need to do if your doing ring continuity.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Why would you need to do an R1+Rn? It's not recorded and no need to do if your doing ring continuity.

I think Wayne's thinking about polarity which should be confirmed at every socket on a periodic inspection.

 

[WayneL]

Why would you need to do an R1+Rn? It's not recorded and no need to do if your doing ring continuity.

Amazing!

The 'Continity of Ring Final Circuit Conductors' is a very clever and important test..........but if your going to do it, it has to be done in it's entirety.

SimpleSimon, what do you think the results from 'Nickblakes' tests are going to tell him? (End to End / R1 + R2 at one socket / Zs at one socket)

How do you reckon he decides which socket to take his R1 + R2 / Zs at?

I'll give you a clue to one of the things it won't tell him (and there's more) - Polarity of the socket outlets.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Use a Martindale? If you do a figure of 8 R1+R2 test than surely this confirms polarity as out of three wires you've just confirmed two so process of elimination says.....?

 

[IQ Electrical]

Use a Martindale? If you do a figure of 8 R1+R2 test than surely this confirms polarity as out of three wires you've just confirmed two so process of elimination says.....?

But only if you test at EVERY outlet.