ring main fault

[danluke1640]

hi my customer wants me to change her fuseboard for a 17th edition at her home.i went today to pretest the circuits and found that there was no neutral continuity on the kitchen ring and no earth continuity on the upstairs ring.My client has just had the whole house decorated and the decorators have siliconed every single socket to the very expensive wallpaper and there is wood flooring in each room.so my question is how would this get signed off with these existing faults or do i tell her that i cant do it .Any opinions?

 

[telectrix]

First, it's a ring final circuit, not a ring main. Now that's out of the way, perhaps you could split the rfc's into radials .

 

[danluke1640]

but i cant get any sockets off the wall to split the ring so if i put it onto 2 radials the live will be fed from 2 mcbs

 

[stuart569]

Have you tested all sockets for a L N E?The earth might be broken at say socket 3 and 7 therefore leaving sockets 4 5 6 without an earth etc..Check this first before splitting into 2 radials

 

[sythai]

Depending on where the break is on the upstairs ring there may be the option to split the ring and alter to 2 x radial circuits.

But that then leaves the kitchen, bit more of a tricky one... not ideal splitting that one really as you've usually got quite a bit of loading in there. Maybe able trace and rewire the broken section, if its behind units, if your lucky.

Good luck

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Replace the CPDs for each RFC with 20A devices.

 

[stuart569]

Why not just use your knife around fittings?Reseal after?Wouldn't be difficult or time consuming.Better doing the job correctly than trying to bodge in a workaround

 

[Flying Ninja]

Split the ring at the fuse board, Use long lead and a socket tester to find the fault. Hopefully you will only have to remove two sockets by carefully scoring around with a sharp stanley blade. Hope this helps.

 

[sparkinlee]

how would this get signed off with these existing faults?

Well, I'd say you can't sign it off with the faults, and it's a tough job rectifying faults behind sockets without taking them off... but some might be cleverer than me...

You can reduce the number of sockets you have to open up by tracing the fault around the ring.

 

[danluke1640]

Flying Ninja cheers i will try this method and fix the fault or i will split the circuit in to 2 radials

 

[Engineer54]

hi my customer wants me to change her fuseboard for a 17th edition at her home.i went today to pretest the circuits and found that there was no neutral continuity on the kitchen ring and no earth continuity on the upstairs ring.My client has just had the whole house decorated and the decorators have siliconed every single socket to the very expensive wallpaper and there is wood flooring in each room.so my question is how would this get signed off with these existing faults or do i tell her that i cant do it .Any opinions?

Tell the silly Moo, that you can't trace, test or correct anything without being able to take the wall plates off of her nice newly decorated walls. If she is silly enough to decorate first and then intend to have work done to the electrical system ...more fool her!! If she doesn't want to spoil her decoration, then walk away, you'll be glad you did!!!!

And NO you can't do a CU renewal, and leave a ring circuit in that condition, ...not unless your a cowboy sparks...

EDIT.... You don't split ring circuits into radials unless it's your LAST resort, and there is no other option open to you. All this splitting rings at the first sign of trouble smacks of, at best laziness, and at worst incompetency!!!

 

[danluke1640]

no im not a cowboy sparks thats why i asked the question and did a pretest first before doing the cu change

 

[Knobhead]

Well said E54.

I can’t understand the stupidity of using silicon on any fitting. What should be a relatively simple fault is raising issues. I’ll bet a pound to a pinch of s£*t it’s the decorators that have disturbed a connection on a socket.

 

[Engineer54]

no im not a cowboy sparks thats why i asked the question and did a pretest first before doing the cu change

I wasn't inferring you in particular, were a cowboy!!

 

[telectrix]

good call tony. sounds well likely. OP should get a silicon gun and show the decorators where it should be squirted, painfully.

 

[i=p/u]

the sockets have to come off, end of!!! you could use wander lead and check to see where is broken, any recent pictures been put up , could be left hanging out by jim the decorator...

for the kitchen , socket tester will tell you where it stops.. seems a tricky one but you might get lucky.. what if main bondind needs upgrading.. just asking...

 

[micknew]

This forum seems to be a free advice web site for anyone who does not know what to do and is trying to save money by DIY!!!!
Does anyone else get that impression???

 

[Engineer54]

No, ...i don't anyway!!

It's a forum for those in the electrical industry, but now and again a member of the public comes on to ask advice. Depending on what and how he asks will generally determine whether he gets instruction advice or told bluntly to get an electrician in to sort out his/her problem...

 

[cjp1]

Same old story people are happy to pay for something they can see like decorating or flooring but when it comes to safety and spending money on something they cant see or show to there mates there not interested.

 

[i=p/u]

thats it cj, you are correct.. i was able to convince a man today his attic needed sorted when i finished what im doing for him, recessed lights and insulation all around them .. i seen some sindging, loads of connector blocks and like a spiders web.... i said was was fire hazzard and he agreed... without looking
...

 

[micknew]

Exactly cjp1, we did our training and they pick our brains to save money.
Its ok when its a technical/rare problem.
Then one of us can offer advice based on previous experience but when its to instruct on simple problems its a different matter.

 

[the pict]

Same old same old, do the I&T, fill in the form, outline whats needed,supply a quote, agree limitations, get your fee for the I&T go home park the van have a beer, this jumping thro hoops costs you time
Pict

 

[Knobhead]

good call tony. sounds well likely. OP should get a silicon gun and show the decorators where it should be squirted, painfully.

Sure as hell beats kaolin for bunging up the system
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