View the thread, titled "Ring main,going going gone" which is posted in UK Electrical Forum on Electricians Forums.

cliffed

-
Arms
My tutors told me to use this as a rule of thumb and you shouldn't go wrong, for a ring final circuit "1 roll of 100m cable = 1 ring final circuit", if that's wrong I stand corrected, but my tutors swore by this rule of thumb.
Found this remark on another forum,using 100m, that ring main ain’t gonna go far.
I usually have 2 rolls on the go.
 
main thing is the number of sockets, and whether there are drops of 6 ft. odd or rises of 2 ft.
 
I suspect there has been some confusion here with the maximum floor area for a 32/30A ring final being 100m sq. It is possible they could also be referring to the volt drop limit if you only use 100m of cable in the circuit bit I am pretty sure that is too high as I thought it was 79m for a well balanced circuit.
 
also to do with the cable resistance .... Zs value. for a 32A MCB you need a R1+R2 < 1 ohm ( exact value depends also on Ze.). ain't got tables to hand, but from memory, 100m 2.5mm T/E wil give aroung 0.6 ohms for R1+R2.
 
Hi - another slant :) - is the tutor meaning "a ring circuit from a single 100m drum of 2.5/1.5 is unlikely to exceed the max loop impedance of a B32 RFC on a TNCS installation" (?) ... Is so, then I agree.

From the OSG Appendix I, 100m of cable R1+R2 is a bit less than 2 Ohms at 20 C.
So r1+r2 is a bit less than 0.5 Ohms at 20C.
TNCS Ze is less than 0.3 Ohms.
Total Zs less than 0.8 Ohms at 20C, or 1 Ohm at 70C, which readily complies with Table 41.3 for B32 OCPD.

For TNS the max Ze is 0.8 Ohms, giving a total of 1.3 Ohms max, which is close to the max of 1.37 Ohms.
 
It’s based on volt drop using 20A at the furthest point and the remainder up to the rating of the OCPD spread evenly. So for a 32A OCPD the design current is 26A. The mV/A/m for 2.5 is 18.

18x26x100=46800

46800/1000=46.8

46.8/4=11.7V

Just a Gnatscock over 11.5V which is the recommended, maximum, permissible value given in the regs of 5% of 230V for power. So the max is actually more like 98 meters but you easily loose the couple of meters when tidying the job up and cutting cables to tuck them into back boxes etc on 1st fix.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi - another slant :) - is the tutor meaning "a ring circuit from a single 100m drum of 2.5/1.5 is unlikely to exceed the max loop impedance of a B32 RFC on a TNCS installation" (?) ... Is so, then I agree.

From the OSG Appendix I, 100m of cable R1+R2 is a bit less than 2 Ohms at 20 C.
So r1+r2 is a bit less than 0.5 Ohms at 20C.
TNCS Ze is less than 0.3 Ohms.
Total Zs less than 0.8 Ohms at 20C, or 1 Ohm at 70C, which readily complies with Table 41.3 for B32 OCPD.

For TNS the max Ze is 0.8 Ohms, giving a total of 1.3 Ohms max, which is close to the max of 1.37 Ohms.
Wilko
Bit puzzled and not disagreeing in any way, but You mention R1+R2 for 100mts cable is less than 2 ohms.
Then in the next sentence r1+r2 is a bit less at 0.5 ohms both at 20degC.
It's probably me but can you explain what you mean ? sorry Mate just me wondering that's all.
 
Wilko
Bit puzzled and not disagreeing in any way, but You mention R1+R2 for 100mts cable is less than 2 ohms.
Then in the next sentence r1+r2 is a bit less at 0.5 ohms both at 20degC.
It's probably me but can you explain what you mean ? sorry Mate just me wondering that's all.
r1+r2 then divide by 4 because it’s a ring final circuit gives you R1+R2.

In the example above if R1+R2=2 Ohms

Then the expected value of r2 would be 2/1.67=1.19

Leaving 0.81 for r1

Obviously 1.19+0.81=2

2/4 because it’s a RFC gives you 0.5 for R1+R2
 
Just because the ring is a standard circuit and it's an easy to remember amount, there's nothing else special about the length of a roll. If you design it all correctly you won't end up far off so it's a rule of thumb.
It's just a short cut to avoid detailed design and calcs. You can just design a more suitable circuit if 100m isn't enough eg use 2.5mm or 4mm radials, or multiple rings, or even the feared lollipop circuit.
 
I think it is quite a useful , back pocket, reminder. I was wiring a large house that was a challenge for cable runs, UFH, high ceilings and the like. Client wanted sockets everywhere and i mean everywhere. Anyway when i had cabled 2 bedrooms and run off a 100m drum, i thought hang on and stopped the install. I ended up pulling in two extra SWA cables to SP Cu's just for VD and Zs. This house has ended up with 3 X TP boards and 2 X SP boards, not just because of socket wiring. its good to not just keep running more and more cable, something has to stop you and make you think. BTW at the design stage we did not have No of sockets and i did rather hope for easier shorter cable runs but in reality it was much harder.
 
If 543.2.9 is the one about conductors in ting finals being connected end to end then that still allows for a lollipop circuit. It's just that the ring is fed from another length of cable. Apologies if I've misunderstood your post.
 

Reply to the thread, titled "Ring main,going going gone" which is posted in UK Electrical Forum on Electricians Forums.

Best EV Chargers by Electrical2Go! The official electric vehicle charger supplier.

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

Advert

Daily, weekly or monthly email

Thread starter

cliffed

Arms
-
Joined
Location
Worcester
If you're a qualified, trainee, or retired electrician - Which country is it that your work will be / is / was aimed at?
United Kingdom
What type of forum member are you?
Electrical Engineer (Qualified)

Thread Information

Title
Ring main,going going gone
Prefix
N/A
Forum
UK Electrical Forum
Start date
Last reply date
Replies
73
Unsolved
--

Advert

Thread statistics

Created
cliffed,
Last reply from
oracle,
Replies
73
Views
8,358

Advert

Back
Top