Ring or Radial?

[pri777]

Hi,

I've recently had a storage heater installed. This was installed in a location that didn't have an off-peak supply.

After some investigation, the electrician moved some wires in the fuse box, to make one of the plugs an off-peak supply. However, this has now impacted: 1 x towel heater in the bathroom, 1 x plug in the living room, and 1 x plug in the 2nd bedroom. These only work during off-peak hours.

I am initially trying to work out whether that means that these are on a ring or radial circuit.

Secondly, I am trying to work out how to fix the issue.

Any help would be really appreciated!

 

[ipf]

Only the electrician in question knows what he did. Get him back in to sort it, before he forgets all about it, himself.
I don't like the sound of making one of the 'plugs' off peak.
Sounds dodgy to me.

 

[westward10]

There are some possibilities. There may have been a radial circuit which supplied these points and they were moved to the off peak board. It may have been a ring final circuit which he split into two radials and put one into the off peak, without physically being there to assess we can only guess but one thing is for sure he has made an error of judgement.

 

[Pete999]

Only the electrician in question knows what he did. Get him back in to sort it, before he forgets all about it, himself.
I don't like the sound of making one of the 'plugs' off peak.
Sounds dodgy to me.

Call matey back to sort his mess out

 

[loz2754]

It could be either.
The electrician should have checked what else was on the circuit before committing to moving it onto the off peak supply.
Get him back.

 

[ipf]

Call matey back to sort his mess out

That's what I said, Pete. ?

 

[loz2754]

Also, modern storage heaters need 2 supplies, peak and off peak, to comply with Lot20 regulations.

 

[Pete999]

great minds think alike then.

 

[pri777]

Thank you all. Unfortunately this is a problem that occurred a while back. The installer is long gone.

I only noticed the problem months later after trying to turn the bathroom heater on!

Lesson learned for sure. Just trying to work out what the best solution is....

Leave the fuse box wiring as is, re-wire the bathroom heater to another supply...and blank off the 2 other plugs sockets?

Thanks

 

[ipf]

It's obvious that the best solution is to get someone properly qualified and competent to sort it out.
If you don't, the odds are, the problems are just going to mount and it'll become more and more dangerous.

 

[timhoward]

The only way out of this, as per above posts, is to get someone in to reinstate how it was originally, and then look at the right way to supply the new storage heater.
It seems most likely to me that what was once a ring final circuit is now not a ring final circuit, and further anyone willing to stick half an RFC in the off peak consumer unit has probably not bothered to adjust the original fuse or MCB to take account of the change. If so the fuse/breaker will not do the job it is supposed to do, which was to protect the wiring from overheating and causing a fire. So worst scenario really could be quite bad here and from safety considerations alone it needs looking over by someone experienced and competent.
The proposed solution of a new feed to the towel rail doesn't address the potential safety implications of what may have taken place.

 

[Dartlec]

The only way out of this, as per above posts, is to get someone in to reinstate how it was originally, and then look at the right way to supply the new storage heater.
It seems most likely to me that what was once a ring final circuit is now not a ring final circuit, and further anyone willing to stick half an RFC in the off peak consumer unit has probably not bothered to adjust the original fuse or MCB to take account of the change. If so the fuse/breaker will not do the job it is supposed to do, which was to protect the wiring from overheating and causing a fire. So worst scenario really could be quite bad here and from safety considerations alone it needs looking over by someone experienced and competent.
The proposed solution of a new feed to the towel rail doesn't address the potential safety implications of what may have taken place.

It's possible that there was a radial in place that he (incorrectly) thought only did one plug and didn't bother to check.

It will need someone with the right tested and a little time to confirm.

Is it an older storage heater that only needs an off-peak supply?

One option that may not require significant rework may be to reinstate whatever he has done (while ensuring it is safe and any ring reinstated properly), and then fit a suitable timer to the socket in question so that the storage heater is only fed during the off peak time.

This is assuming that you have the standard setup where all power during off peak is charged at low rates...

 

[pri777]

Thanks all. The assumption is correct that I have cheaper off peak electricity. The timer tied to the off peak supply option, is one that I want to avoid.

Having turned some switch board switches on and off this eve, I’ve worked out that the outlets in question are connected to a 32A fuse in the off-peak box. I’d guess that this fuse and the circuit attached to it, was originally in the on-peak board as a ring main.

If this guess is correct, would you say my current setup is at least safe?

Obviously I’ll be calling an electrician around (waiting for the second vaccine jab!), but want to try and understand as much as I can beforehand.

Cheers

 

[SJD]

Not sure anyone has mentioned this, it is quite possible the original circuit was a "Heating Ring", i.e. a ring final circuit for heaters only on a 30A fuse / 32A MCB. A few small flats round here have these, typically one outlet per room (two in the lounge), for panel heaters, bathroom heater, on the 24hr supply (no off-peak originally, nor gas). Normally FCUs for hard wired heaters, but quite possibly the odd one gets changed to a socket over time, e.g. if one heater position not required. So in theory quite possibly OK to move to the off-peak supply, but only if you check everything connected would want to be off-peak only!

 

[timhoward]

If this guess is correct, would you say my current setup is at least safe?

There are in fact so many possibilities it is entirely a guess answering the question. But the answer is that if an entire ring moved from one board to the other, as per your guess, and making other assumptions about it being wired in a common way, then that would be likely to be safe. If there is a fuse/breaker that doesn’t seem to do anything on the old board or a new space then that would support the guess that a whole circuit moved.