UK Safe isolation

[zolee]

Hi everyone,

I hope you are all well and having a good week.

I would like to ask a question regarding safe isolation in one particular case.

I know we have to lock off/tag off the circuit we are working on, but what if there are two electricians attending the job?

Scenario:

Two qualified electricians, both with LVCP (Low Voltage Competent Person) certificates, are working on an external lighting circuit with two external lights 6 meters apart.

The distribution board (DB) is positioned inside on the same wall as the external lights. The wall is 8 meters long.

The DB is guarded by barriers and one LVCP-certified electrician, whose job is to act as a banksman when the cherry picker is moving and to guard the DB.

The lighting circuit is protected by an MCB and managed by a timer switch, which activates at night. The job is carried out during the day.

Additionally, there is a timer bypass switch, and barriers extend from the DB to the entrance door, where the second electrician is standing.

While one electrician is in the cherry picker (working on a dead circuit), the other is standing at the entrance door, positioned between the two lights and 2-3 meters from the distribution board, without any obstacles blocking the view of the DB at all times.

The light fittings will need to be energized multiple times during the work to perform necessary checks.

When the lighting circuit needs to be energized, the 2nd electrician will switch the MCB on and turn the override switch to bypass the timer and make the circuit live. Otherwise, the circuit remains dead.

Question:
Is it acceptable if the MCB is just switched off (without locking/tagging it off) and guarded by the second qualified electrician?

Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Hope so as i use this technique often. You can always check the live ends before touching them just in case the 2 electricians get out of sync. Good comms is vital to your sanity as i have found "off" and "on" to sound similar, in an industrial / noisy environment.
IMHO in this scenario it is more likely the guarding / switching electrician is more of a risk than a random person pushing past the electrician and diving for the MCB

 

[Marvo]

Yep, agree that it's acceptable if it's a competent person. I'd suggest a quick risk assessment and maybe a writen or even verbal method statement or discussion to make sure everyones on the same page.

 

[zolee]

Hope so as i use this technique often. You can always check the live ends before touching them just in case the 2 electricians get out of sync. Good comms is vital to your sanity as i have found "off" and "on" to sound similar, in an industrial / noisy environment.
IMHO in this scenario it is more likely the guarding / switching electrician is more of a risk than a random person pushing past the electrician and diving for the MCB

Thank you for your response. I really appreciate it.

 

[zolee]

Yep, agree that it's acceptable if it's a competent person. I'd suggest a quick risk assessment and maybe a writen or even verbal method statement or discussion to make sure everyones on the same page.

Yes, I forgot to add to description that written RAMS is in place for cherry picker, signed by both electricians.

Thank you for your response. I really appreciate it.

 

[James]

this is one of the times that some agreed hand signals might be prudent.
i.e
man in air wanting power off
finger slicing across throat in cut type action

man on ground thumbs up to acknowledge,
walk to db, turn off breaker
signal slice throat action back to man in air to confirm it has been completed.


man in air wanting power on
signals 1 arm in air, 1 arm outstretched horizontally making an "L shape"

similar confirmation signals from man on ground.

this will not override the life saving check for dead that you should be doing before touching anything that is possibly live but will reduce any mis communications between the two of you.

 

[zolee]

this is one of the times that some agreed hand signals might be prudent.
i.e
man in air wanting power off
finger slicing across throat in cut type action

man on ground thumbs up to acknowledge,
walk to db, turn off breaker
signal slice throat action back to man in air to confirm it has been completed.


man in air wanting power on
signals 1 arm in air, 1 arm outstretched horizontally making an "L shape"

similar confirmation signals from man on ground.

this will not override the life saving check for dead that you should be doing before touching anything that is possibly live but will reduce any mis communications between the two of you.

Thank you for your response. I really appreciate it.

 

[oscar21]

Is the money that good it makes all this H&S nonsense worthwhile, even the simpleton labourer on our jobs understands "don't touch that fuse box its live". and I can walk round in shorts and a t-shirt all day and still do ok money wise.

 

[littlespark]

Is the money that good it makes all this H&S nonsense worthwhile, even the simpleton labourer on our jobs understands "don't touch that fuse box its live". and I can walk round in shorts and a t-shirt all day and still do ok money wise.

Not every simpleton labourer (as you put it) does understand.

In fact, I would say many electrical accidents happen to those that should and do know better.

Take a chance, work on something live… they know they’re not allowed to, but they do.


All H&S is there because something happened to someone once… so procedures are put in place so it never happens again.
Call it OTT, or “H&S gone mad” but a lot of these rules would never have been thought up until someone unsuccessfully tried it.

 

[westward10]

Is the money that good it makes all this H&S nonsense worthwhile, even the simpleton labourer on our jobs understands "don't touch that fuse box its live". and I can walk round in shorts and a t-shirt all day and still do ok money wise.

I don't see how this has any relevance to the question asked.

 

[DPG]

I don't see how this has any relevance to the question asked.

I suspect it's just another excuse to have a go at people

 

[zolee]

Yep, agree that it's acceptable if it's a competent person. I'd suggest a quick risk assessment and maybe a writen or even verbal method statement or discussion to make sure everyones if it's a competent person

Yep, agree that it's acceptable if it's a competent person. I'd suggest a quick risk assessment and maybe a writen or even verbal method statement or discussion to make sure everyones on the same page.

I can't find anywhere (on "official " sites) that competent person can guard a DB. Where is it written?

 

[plugsandsparks]

Thats not how it works. You have identified a need to switch power on and off for testing purposes. You have decided for the minimal movement of Cherry Picker ( a risk in itself) to use a remote method using a second electrician to co-ordinate such switching. To minimise risk for the chance the cct has been switched by anyone else, you have stationed an electrician at the switching point. You have agreed a comms method to ensure switching only takes place at the desired time (and the testing electrician double checks the circuit is dead)
This is your method , unique to your situation.

 

[zolee]

Thats not how it works. You have identified a need to switch power on and off for testing purposes. You have decided for the minimal movement of Cherry Picker ( a risk in itself) to use a remote method using a second electrician to co-ordinate such switching. To minimise risk for the chance the cct has been switched by anyone else, you have stationed an electrician at the switching point. You have agreed a comms method to ensure switching only takes place at the desired time (and the testing electrician double checks the circuit is dead)
This is your method , unique to your situation.

Thank you for your response. I really appreciate it.