Aye, that's probably more like it mate
Just edited it, may come over easier.
Aye, that's probably more like it mate
OK good answer
What would you think about a person with no formal qualifications (say a seriously dyslectic).
But has a long history of working on site and could carry out any electrical installation works, including all documentation from (Quotation, to sign off certificates) correctly.
Could carry out any task on site with in-depth supervisory experience and responsibility of all works.
Taken that they would have a good understanding of BS 7671.
Really can't see the point your trying desperately to put forward here?? Not even the scam providers could justify registering such a person. Which was the original point you were trying to make.
If there were such guy's around, i would have to ask, why haven't they bothered to take the relevant C&G exams etc to qualify themselves?? In reality, without a JIB card they wouldn't even be able to walk onto the vast majority of sites in the UK!!
If they were free would you join one?Whatever way you want to look at it, unless you go through some form of formal training or in depth assessment where technical and practical knowledge has to be proved, you don't get a JIB electricians card!! I hope your not implying that an improver/mates JIB card will allow them to literary run a project electrically, as you described in an earlier post on this thread??
No they would have a full skill gold card
Not really interested in what the scammers consider competent, anyone and their dog can pass their assessment procedures, they have proved time and time again, they are primarily only interested in the money side of things!!
JIB now owned(?) by ECA....If they were free would you join one?
The JIB are owned by the ECA
“The JIB is jointly owned by ECA and Unite, the union. Its objectives are to provide a forum for debate and agreement on employment matters, as well as offering employers practical support in dealing professionally with employees and employment requirements.”
So where do we go from here who is to judge wheather we are compitant? (you seem to be getting humpy again hangover is it?)![]()
If they were free would you join one?
The JIB are owned by the ECA
“The JIB is jointly owned by ECA and Unite, the union. Its objectives are to provide a forum for debate and agreement on employment matters, as well as offering employers practical support in dealing professionally with employees and employment requirements.”
So where do we go from here who is to judge wheather we are compitant? (you seem to be getting humpy again hangover is it?)![]()
Dan, Shut this down we're all going off to be gas blokes.
There is no specific requirement for you to be a member of an organisation such as the NICEIC or ECA etc for commercial electrical installation work. None. You have a duty however to follow the HASWA/EAWR and in doing so common sense and compliance with BS7671:2008(2011) is required in all aspects of the job. Competency can only be proven by suitable qualifications and experience.
Now a client may well request such trade body organisation membership for tendering commercial installation work. This is down to the illusion companies like the NICEIC/ECA etc like to create that in order to be a fully qualified electrician/registered you need to be a member. However in no way does membership with said organisations guarantee compliance on a job for the client, nor does it give any protection for a company which fails to comply with the above regulations and are a member. In short membership gives you no legal bolstering what so ever, if you burn a village down the ECA/NICEIC etc wont have your back in court.
Worse than that the NICEIC/ECA's etc definition of competency in a court of law might not even be enough to prove competency beyond doubt in the first place.
And as for Part P - from April domestic electrical work can be carried out by Bob the plasterer from the pub, non qualified, non registered and his third party mate the "competent person" can produce just a EICR rather than a EIC Endorsed by the government and said scam provider. Limitations anyone?:iamwithstupid:
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_AD_P_2013_DRAFT.pdf
The way this diy advice forum is going maybe we'd better just gas ourselves!
I am sorry if you think that I am starting an argument, all I am trying to do is to answer best I can the OP question and trying to give him my unbiased opinion am not trying to say that one thing is better than another its up to him what he does.Well in the real world, None of the fast track 17day/Electrical Trainee's will ever manage to obtain an electricians JIB grade card without under going further extensive training etc. So for all it's faults, the JIB grading system is at least doing some good!! I can't see the joint operators, namely the electrical Union letting those standards slip anytime soon either.
Far too many ''what ifs'' and ''maybes'' within your arguments, so it's still all hypothetical, especially when you bring the law into the equation. The Law has always been an unpredictable ---, and will continue to be so....
I am sorry if you think that I am starting an argument, all I am trying to do is to answer best I can the OP question and trying to give him my unbiased opinion am not trying to say that one thing is better than another its up to him what he does.
I honestly believe if he wants to get on in the trade and create a profitable business, forget part P and scratching about in peoples lofts and get in to commercial and industrial work.
In order to get decent worthwhile works it is a big advantage to be in a scheme.
The IET who are reasonable for creating the BS 7671, recognise A qualifying supervisor in electrical installation (as defined by ECA, NICEIC); as criteria to become a member of the IET.
There is no such grading as electrician and their ECS cards
As for 17day/Electrical Trainee's if they worked for a JIB company, they could be sponsored for an ECS card.
Fortunately or unfortunately whatever way you want to look at it, I am biased!! This was once a proud professional industry that i considered a privilege to be a part of. Now it's been ransacked by leeches and reduced to an industry that's anything but professional!!
I know, they have been letting any Tom Dick and Harry in for quite a while now. If i was starting all over again, i would rather be Chartered through CIBS than this new IET. A far more professional Institute all round!! Too old and too late in the day to change now!! lol!!
As for the fast track boy's ...again, ONLY as at a grade of Labourer, Mate, Improver!!
Oh mate you need to chill out, its not rocket science, look in a book, get a bit of experience, and you might just might earn £30,000 a year if you are lucky.
Think about it.
Oh mate you need to chill out, its not rocket science, look in a book, get a bit of experience, and you might just might earn £30,000 a year if you are lucky.
Think about it.
I think you need to watch your step here fella, E54 is one of our most respected members and you would be a wise man not to disrespect him when you know half as much as he or certain other members of this forum know then MAYBE JUST MAYBE you can make such offensive comments.remember one day you may need his advice.Oh mate you need to chill out, its not rocket science, look in a book, get a bit of experience, and you might just might earn £30,000 a year if you are lucky.
Think about it.
I think you need to watch your step here fella, E54 is one of our most respected members and you would be a wise man not to disrespect him when you know half as much as he
Exactly and that is the true measure of a mans knowledge,when you realise that you don't know it all then you are truly a knowlegeable man!Quite right, I have already learned that myself, what a ridiculous post by Sailor, another wannabe, and he will never know 10% of what E54 does, ah well the Electrical Trainee brigade continues, exhausting but we have a Job to do to protect the public, dear oh dear and round 2 begins sigh, will the queen give us MBEs for the pain we have to endear I wonder sigh.
I think you need to watch your step here fella, E54 is one of our most respected members and you would be a wise man not to disrespect him when you know half as much as he or certain other members of this forum know then MAYBE JUST MAYBE you can make such offensive comments.remember one day you may need his advice.
99 troops marching to the right 1 marching to the left,which do you think is going the wrong way?If you want to stick your heads in the sand OK your right I’m wrong
99 troops marching to the right 1 marching to the left,which do you think is going the wrong way?
say 3 hail marys 1 our father and go in peace and sin no more .lol.ps at least you have a sense of humour.Me obviously
OP No don’t join any of the scam schemes there a waste of time they won’t help you in any way.
You will be able to get on any insurance, council, MOD, etc procurement list most decent construction companies are not interested in you being accredited you can show them you exam results, they are not interested in whether you have a H&E policy customer complaints policy warranty or bond to cover your works.
Am I now forgiven for daring to question the holy one?
Me obviously
OP No don’t join any of the scam schemes there a waste of time they won’t help you in any way.
You will be able to get on any insurance, council, MOD, etc procurement list most decent construction companies are not interested in you being accredited you can show them you exam results, they are not interested in whether you have a H&E policy customer complaints policy warranty or bond to cover your works.
Am I now forgiven for daring to question the holy one?
Me obviously
OP No don’t join any of the scam schemes there a waste of time they won’t help you in any way.
You will be able to get on any insurance, council, MOD, etc procurement list most decent construction companies are not interested in you being accredited you can show them you exam results, they are not interested in whether you have a H&E policy customer complaints policy warranty or bond to cover your works.
Am I now forgiven for daring to question the holy one?