scam questions

[SAILOR48]

I'm saying (and quite clearly i thought) that being registered with a scam provider WILL NOT guarantee anything!! lol!!

As for you quoting HSE etc, the only things they have contributed to any industry is utter chaos!!

You are also talking about a time, when a qualified electrician was exactly that, ...Qualified!!
Today, your all on a losing battle, where price over qualifications and experience will in most cases be the deciding factor!! lol!!

How do you define qualified?

 

[telectrix]

or how do you qualify defined?

 

[Engineer54]

How do you define qualified?

Certainly not under the present definitions, or as defined by the scam providers.


But i will try and briefly give you my definition.... An electrician that has been extensively trained for a number of years under the supervision of experienced electricians. That has been progressively given more responsibility as his training progresses. Has completed at least a recognised core qualification, and preferably additional meaningful qualifications that are applicable to the requirements of a journeyman electrician.


Doesn't have to be an indentured apprentice, (GlennSpark is a pretty good example of alternative training) but that was the only way you were considered as being, a ''qualified electrician'' when i entered the industry....

Anyway, ...What would your definition of being qualified be??

 

[moddeydhoo]

time served4-5 years i did 5, city & guilds, not the easy pass exams they have now. An idiot apprentice failed part p 6 times passed the tic box first time.
to do domestic or indutrial or comercial, should all be the same. so called domestic installer in the future will go for the bigger jobs, so called domestic installer, if something goes wrong, see in court how unqualified the wigs will make them look

 

[SAILOR48]

Certainly not under the present definitions, or as defined by the scam providers.


But i will try and briefly give you my definition.... An electrician that has been extensively trained for a number of years under the supervision of experienced electricians. That has been progressively given more responsibility as his training progresses. Has completed at least a recognised core qualification, and preferably additional meaningful qualifications that are applicable to the requirements of a journeyman electrician.


Doesn't have to be an indentured apprentice, (GlennSpark is a pretty good example of alternative training) but that was the only way you were considered as being, a ''qualified electrician'' when i entered the industry....

Anyway, ...What would your definition of being qualified be??

OK good answer
What would you think about a person with no formal qualifications (say a seriously dyslectic).
But has a long history of working on site and could carry out any electrical installation works, including all documentation from (Quotation, to sign off certificates) correctly.
Could carry out any task on site with in-depth supervisory experience and responsibility of all works.
Taken that they would have a good understanding of BS 7671.

 

[trev]

OK good answer
What would you think about a person with no formal qualifications (say a seriously dyslectic).
But has a long history of working on site and could carry out any electrical installation works, including all documentation from (Quotation, to sign off certificates) correctly.
Could carry out any task on site with in-depth supervisory experience and responsibility of all works.
Taken that they would have a good understanding of BS 7671.

There are now facilities in place to train and examine dyslexics mate. My nephew is dyslexic and his training providers are bending over backwards, he's a clever lad though and will pass whatever exams he is faced with. He just has big problems reading some things and writing in a coherent way, ask him to explain what he means though...

 

[SAILOR48]

There are now facilities in place to train and examine dyslexics mate. My nephew is dyslexic and his training providers are bending over backwards, he's a clever lad though and will pass whatever exams he is faced with. He just has big problems reading some things and writing in a coherent way, ask him to explain what he means though...

OK if you wanted to start a thread on learning disabilities and becoming an electrician. I think it would be interesting.

 

[trev]

OK if you wanted to start a thread on learning disabilities and becoming an electrician. I think it would be interesting.

You brought dyslexia into the discussion not me, I was merely pointing out that it isn't the barrier that you may think any more.

Given some of the questions asked on here at times I'm not sure a learning disability is a barrier to becoming a sparky

 

[ipf]

You brought dyslexia into the discussion not me, I was merely pointing out that it isn't the barrier that you may think any more.

Given some of the questions asked on here at times I'm not sure a learning disability is a barrier to becoming a sparky

Nor learning inability ?

 

[trev]

Learning inability maybe ?

Aye, that's probably more like it mate

 

[ipf]

Aye, that's probably more like it mate

Just edited it, may come over easier.

 

[Engineer54]

OK good answer
What would you think about a person with no formal qualifications (say a seriously dyslectic).
But has a long history of working on site and could carry out any electrical installation works, including all documentation from (Quotation, to sign off certificates) correctly.
Could carry out any task on site with in-depth supervisory experience and responsibility of all works.
Taken that they would have a good understanding of BS 7671.

Really can't see the point your trying desperately to put forward here?? Not even the scam providers could justify registering such a person. Which was the original point you were trying to make.

If there were such guy's around, i would have to ask, why haven't they bothered to take the relevant C&G exams etc to qualify themselves?? In reality, without a JIB card they wouldn't even be able to walk onto the vast majority of sites in the UK!!

 

[SAILOR48]

Really can't see the point your trying desperately to put forward here?? Not even the scam providers could justify registering such a person. Which was the original point you were trying to make.

If there were such guy's around, i would have to ask, why haven't they bothered to take the relevant C&G exams etc to qualify themselves?? In reality, without a JIB card they wouldn't even be able to walk onto the vast majority of sites in the UK!!

So you would think.
But it’s not so there was a time in the dim and distant pass when there existed what was known as Granddad rights.
Not generally broadcast but existed all the same.
Basically if you could prove by being sponsored by your company or indeed if you had your own company you could be assessed by one of the scammers the same as any one else and if found satisfactory you paid your money and you were in.
Its recently been changed you now need the open book 17[SUP]th[/SUP] edition thing to stay in.
As you will no doubt agree if you can’t pass this well, hardly an exam.
Same for the JIB card a basic CSCS card will usually get you on site same as above hardly an exam.
But this route is available for now.
Extract from JIB Site
Mature candidate assessment route
If you have been working within the industry but have, for whatever reason, never completed the formal industry qualification, then it will be necessary to complete the mature candidate assessment.
This assessment is carried out via a professional interview and site assessments by a specialist assessor. These assessments can accredit your prior industry experienced, where applicable, with existing technical qualifications taken into account.
In most cases gaining accreditation is a straightforward process for those legitimately competent in the industry, and relevant experience can generally be verified and documented by an experienced assessor in 6 to 8 weeks.

Until 31st December 2012 candidates who are registered by their training provider/assessor will demonstrate their industry knowledge and experience against the NVQ Level 3 in Electrotechnical Services (Electrical Installation - Buildings & Structures). This process will have to have been completed before the last certification date in 2015.
From 1st January 2013 candidates will be registered by their training provider/assessor on the Level 3 NVQ Diploma in Electrical Installations (Buildings and Structures) and this will include the AM2 assessment.
This qualification route is open to anyone who has industry experience but does not hold the relevant industry qualification.
Information on the mature candidate route is available from the following national assessment companies or your local college or assessor :

 

[Engineer54]

Whatever way you want to look at it, unless you go through some form of formal training or in depth assessment where technical and practical knowledge has to be proved, you don't get a JIB electricians card!! I hope your not implying that an improver/mates JIB card will allow them to literary run a project electrically, as you described in an earlier post on this thread??

Not really interested in what the scammers consider competent, anyone and their dog can pass their assessment procedures, they have proved time and time again, they are primarily only interested in the money side of things!!

 

[SAILOR48]

Whatever way you want to look at it, unless you go through some form of formal training or in depth assessment where technical and practical knowledge has to be proved, you don't get a JIB electricians card!! I hope your not implying that an improver/mates JIB card will allow them to literary run a project electrically, as you described in an earlier post on this thread??


No they would have a full skill gold card

Not really interested in what the scammers consider competent, anyone and their dog can pass their assessment procedures, they have proved time and time again, they are primarily only interested in the money side of things!!

If they were free would you join one?
The JIB are owned by the ECA
“The JIB is jointly owned by ECA and Unite, the union. Its objectives are to provide a forum for debate and agreement on employment matters, as well as offering employers practical support in dealing professionally with employees and employment requirements.”

So where do we go from here who is to judge wheather we are compitant? (you seem to be getting humpy again hangover is it?)