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Discuss Schedule for a db in the Periodic Inspection Reporting & Certification area at ElectriciansForums.net

K

kmcgold

I have done a Schedule for a db
I have list maximum zs to bs7671 @ 80%
due to the ambient temperature being 40 to 55 c
been ask to list maximum zs to bs7671 only
what would you list?
 
A bit pointless recording uncorrected measured values and the maximum allowed values, if the corrected values exceed the maximum values.
How would you explain to your client that although the figure you have recorded is below the maximum allowed, actually in reality it is above them because of correction factors?
 
A bit pointless recording uncorrected measured values and the maximum allowed values, if the corrected values exceed the maximum values.
How would you explain to your client that although the figure you have recorded is below the maximum allowed, actually in reality it is above them because of correction factors?

If the measured reading is below the maximum it means that the circuit is OK if it is above alarm bells should start ringing as either it was designed incorrectly or there is a fault somewhwere.

Values for Max Zs is to BS7671 not 80%

If you are recording the 80% value for your Zs reading you get then you are falsifying your test certificate.
 
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A bit pointless recording uncorrected measured values and the maximum allowed values, if the corrected values exceed the maximum values.
How would you explain to your client that although the figure you have recorded is below the maximum allowed, actually in reality it is above them because of correction factors?

Exactly the same way you would explain exceeding the 80% values!
 
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schedule says max. you put max., as in bs7671. schedule says measured, you put actual measured. then you compare the measured reading with the 80% corrected value as in osg. as long as the measured value is below the 80% figure, fine. if it is below the max. and above the 80%, cause for concern. if above the max. then it needs sorting out. that,s me trying to put it in plain english. unless of course, it's a TT system with 30mA RCD protection, then the max. is 1667. but it is debateable whether you enter this value or the max. as per bs7671.opinion is divided on this.
 
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The 80% value includes allowance for the fact that the circuit wiring may not have reached the operating temperature produced by the current of the connected load when the circuit is in normal service. The test instrument will (in most circumstances) be unable to produce the level of sustained current needed to produce these temperatures. So if your result is between the 80% and 100% you say to your client "Although the test result is just satisfactory when the circuit is switched off it may become unsatisfactory when it is in use", and you could add "We recommend further investigation is required..."
 
No wonder the public consider us to be rip off artists, if figures on test sheets conflict.
Fortunately I don't use NICEIC sheets so don't have this problem.
Apart from when I was at college doing my 2391, all the sheets I've used do not require the recording of maximum allowed values.
BlueToBits, to my knowledge measured values of Zs can only be determined with the circuit switched on.
 
I don't find 'the public' get too deeply involved with the intricacies of Zs values whether BS7671 tabulated or 80% rule of thumb, there are far more deserving cases for being labelled a 'rip off artist'.
 
spinlondon,
The inside cover of the NICEIC sheets show the 80% values as an aid to the inspecting electrician.
The NICEIC certificate requires the actual maximum value to be entered.
Recording the maximum values is not a problem, and is often a help. It also helps to justify 'failing' any test results that exceed them to the client.
I don't see why this itself could be regarded as a rip-off, but I agree, there are too many inspection reports carried out that are incorrect or incomplete, mostly because the inspecting electrician does not really have enough knowledge or experience to do it correctly.
Yes, one would take a Zs measurement with the circuit switched on, but not necessarily under full load conditions where the cable conductors could reach an operating temperature of 60 degrees. This would increase the actual Zs from the reading taken with the cables at ambient temperature, hence the 80% values.

So the reasoning behind this is this:
A water heater circuit (not RCD protected) may just pass a Zs test at just under the maximum value. This would appear to be OK. however, in normal use the current that the water heater pulls will cause the phase conductor temperature to rise, increasing it's resistance. This increase may then take the Zs of the circuit over the max permitted value. Particularly if the heating effect of both the P&N conductors also cause the ECC temperature and resistance to rise. Additionally, the heating effect of any other grouped cables may also contribute to this increase in Zs. In the event of an earth fault the required disconnection time may not now be achieved. So a test that originally passed now fails.
If the original Zs test is below the 80% value then it is considered that the heating effect of the cable in normal use will not be an issue. If 80% of the maximum is exceeded than additional investigation may be required.
 

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