Scottish Referendum

[Guest77]

Carrying on from the conversation with Murdoch, Why isn't the whole UK allowed to vote on the scottish issue? it after all effects everyone of us.

 

[Octopus]

A very good question - after all we may want to get rid of them!!

 

[Guest77]

A pretty major thing for the whole UK though, and yet 5 million people out of 64 million and some are 16 years old get to decide our future, another tory blunder

 

[Octopus]

A pretty major thing for the whole UK though, and yet 5 million people out of 64 million and some are 16 years old get to decide our future, another tory blunder

Wasn't that something Salmond did?

 

[Marvo]

What's the sentiment in the UK? Glad to see them go maybe, or not?

 

[jimmymac]

I believe so Murdoch. To be honest i'm not a big fan of uncle Alex but having lived on both sides of the border I've gotta say that I prefer it up here

 

[Octopus]

What's the sentiment in the UK? Glad to see them go maybe, or not?

To be honest Marvo, its a bit like the EU issue - I'm dammed sure, that we the public, are not being told the whole story, or the pros or the cons

 

[Guest77]

I wonder what will happen if they vote yes, we will still have a joint armed force, still have joint businesses, still share road and rail routes and share costs, I cannot see it working, unless the rest of what is left of the UK refuses to pay anything towards an independant scotland they will have the best of both worlds whilst the rest of us pay for it. If Scotland remains in the UK then they still have the best of it with MPs in westminster and their own parliament, yet they control their own taxes and rules and laws, we cannot win either way Andy so it is a tough question to answer.

 

[Octopus]

I believe so Murdoch. To be honest i'm not a big fan of uncle Alex but having lived on both sides of the border I've gotta say that I prefer it up here

I've a lage chunk of scottish in me and family and friends north of the border. My cousins kids have all enjoyed FREE university education and my elderly relatives FREE care..... unlike my mum who paid £6K/month

 

[Guest77]

Wasn't that something Salmond did?

Yes he knows the youngsters are taught to hate the English at school and has jumped on it to get himself as Scotlands first President, he is only interested in himself and not his fellow Scots, the man is a weasel.

 

[jimmymac]

I've a lage chunk of scottish in me and family and friends north of the border. My cousins kids have all enjoyed FREE university education and my elderly relatives FREE care..... unlike my mum who paid £6K/month

Agreed, the HNC which I've just completed cost me £1200 all together, down in England it would have been £9000. Now I have the opportunity to do the HND which will cost a further £1200. That means it is more than 15 grand cheaper!

 

[Octopus]

Agreed, the HNC which I've just completed cost me £1200 all together, down in England it would have been £9000. Now I have the opportunity to do the HND which will cost a further £1200. That means it is more than 15 grand cheaper!

Which was funded courtsey of the Barnet Formula........

 

[Guest77]

I wonder how many Scots were supporting Italy yesterday? If Scotland were playing Italy, I wonder how many English would support them? are we really united? and should we try to strengthen our relationship?

 

[Dcf]

Yes he knows the youngsters are taught to hate the English at school and has jumped on it to get himself as Scotlands first President, he is only interested in himself and not his fellow Scots, the man is a weasel.

I certainly wasn't taught at school to hate the English.
Don't know where the idea that we get everything for free came from but that's not the case.
if you are a jakey dosser using every social service known to man then maybe.
if you have a bob or two then no you will pay.
if we are such a burden on English finances why the dirty trick campaign to keep us in the union?
If the best the better together campaign can come up with is negative scare stories then they have lost already.
one of the latest was that the cost of electricity was going to triple as it would be spread over 5m customers rather than 60m.fair enough.
the only fly in the ointment was that Scotland has been a net exporter of electricity for years!
so when I read all the daily scare stories I take them all with a pinch of salt.
i am no Scottish nationalist but would we be any worse off?
I don't think so

 

[Guest77]

I certainly wasn't taught at school to hate the English.
Don't know where the idea that we get everything for free came from but that's not the case.
if you are a jakey dosser using every social service known to man then maybe.
if you have a bob or two then no you will pay.
if we are such a burden on English finances why the dirty trick campaign to keep us in the union?
If the best the better together campaign can come up with is negative scare stories then they have lost already.
one of the latest was that the cost of electricity was going to triple as it would be spread over 5m customers rather than 60m.fair enough.
the only fly in the ointment was that Scotland has been a net exporter of electricity for years!
so when I read all the daily scare stories I take them all with a pinch of salt.
i am no Scottish nationalist but would we be any worse off?
I don't think so

My dad goes to scotland at least once a year but usually twice, he loves it up there, he has been on trips to where the fights between the scots and the english happened 800 years ago and has heard school teachers telling children as young as 7 or 8 how horrible we were then and still are today, he has even challenged one teacher who went bright red and had to apologise to him in front of the kids, and he has heard teenagers in pubs saying they hate us, yep hate and they were just kids, so it happens. regarding the dirty tricks, can you expand, I haven't heard anything here TBH and am interested in this, cheers.

 

[mayfair]

If they do it i hope they do it properly Passports to be shown etc no cheap rate calls through the BT tower etc Think a lot of misinformed Jocks think braveheart was a real deal and not some hollywood film. I cant stand it when they start shouting againt England they'd be foofed without us as would the welsh. Let them all go. to me a scot is as foriegn as a Spaniard. If they want to hate us give them something to hate us for let them pay for everything

 

[Guest77]

I certainly wasn't taught at school to hate the English.
Don't know where the idea that we get everything for free came from but that's not the case.
if you are a jakey dosser using every social service known to man then maybe.
if you have a bob or two then no you will pay.
if we are such a burden on English finances why the dirty trick campaign to keep us in the union?
If the best the better together campaign can come up with is negative scare stories then they have lost already.
one of the latest was that the cost of electricity was going to triple as it would be spread over 5m customers rather than 60m.fair enough.
the only fly in the ointment was that Scotland has been a net exporter of electricity for years!
so when I read all the daily scare stories I take them all with a pinch of salt.
i am no Scottish nationalist but would we be any worse off?
I don't think so

I think you would be yes, you could not trade with europe as you wouldn't be allowed in the EU, the free parking and prescriptions you get now would have to go surely as you will have to fund yourselves and Salmond is telling porkies regarding North sea oil, it belongs to BP and Norway oil, I cannot imagine BP just handing over the rigs and kit can you? What about the ship yards and naval and airforce bases which employ thousands up there? what about the businesses which survive around the Naval and airforce bases? Should Scotland leave the union the ship yards and military bases will move south and you will lose out won't you?

 

[mayfair]

Cost of Scotish Holidays to europe will also go up as the will have to pay to fly through ENGLISH airspace

 

[Guest77]

What gets me is it is all about them, we would all be better off financially in the short term if we were 4 independent countries, but would we be better off regarding security and long term prosperity, The scots are vertually independent now, they have politicians in the English and Scottish and European parliaments and are free to control their own taxes, but it isn't enough for 42% of them, I hope the 58% who want to remain with us, vote the same way in September.

 

[Dcf]

Dirty tricks.the Grangemouth fiasco started over a union rep and the day"saved" by mr Cameron himself.
the redrawing of Scottish territorial waters that makes England have waters as far up as Dundee taking in about 10 oil fields .yeah there will be few more before September.
the oil firms pay tax to operate in the North Sea.
revenue the uk wants to keep obviously.
as for defence we wouldn't really need much in the way of armed forces as the bases have been getting run down since the end of the Cold War anyway.
when a Russian warship sailed into uk waters last year there wasn't a navy ship in Scotland
they sent one up to intercept it from Portsmouth!
there is one yard left on the Clyde and the dockyard at rosyth and that is it.
when the sub base at faslane closes we could maybe offer the base to the Russians or Chinese who would love a base on British soil I would think.that would put the cat amongst the pigeons.

 

[Guest77]

Dirty tricks.the Grangemouth fiasco started over a union rep and the day"saved" by mr Cameron himself.
the redrawing of Scottish territorial waters that makes England have waters as far up as Dundee taking in about 10 oil fields .yeah there will be few more before September.
the oil firms pay tax to operate in the North Sea.
revenue the uk wants to keep obviously.
as for defence we wouldn't really need much in the way of armed forces as the bases have been getting run down since the end of the Cold War anyway.
when a Russian warship sailed into uk waters last year there wasn't a navy ship in Scotland
they sent one up to intercept it from Portsmouth!
there is one yard left on the Clyde and the dockyard at rosyth and that is it.
when the sub base at faslane closes we could maybe offer the base to the Russians or Chinese who would love a base on British soil I would think.that would put the cat amongst the pigeons.

That would never happen lol

 

[mayfair]

when the sub base at faslane closes we could maybe offer the base to the Russians or Chinese who would love a base on British soil I would think.that would put the cat amongst the pigeons.
Think NATO might have something to say about that never mind England. Enoght crap comes out of Salmonds mouth without the rest of the scots starting and BTW it wouldnt be British soil it would be scotish soil as i said if your out your out

 

[Dcf]

Stranger things have happened mike!

 

[mayfair]

So the chinese take aways will have to start selling deep fried mars bars but it would be handy for the scots for Vodka and irun bru if the russians came ???

 

[Guest77]

irun bru, lmao, that was funny

 

[Guest77]

Something for you Jocks lol, providing you have facebook that is https://www.facebook.com/nobodylikesatory

 

[jimmymac]

If they do it i hope they do it properly Passports to be shown etc no cheap rate calls through the BT tower etc Think a lot of misinformed Jocks think braveheart was a real deal and not some hollywood film. I cant stand it when they start shouting againt England they'd be foofed without us as would the welsh. Let them all go. to me a scot is as foriegn as a Spaniard. If they want to hate us give them something to hate us for let them pay for everything

It sounds to me like your the one whose doing all the hating! I certainly don't hate the English

 

[guest119]

Who is going to pay our dole if we separate?
Who is going to pay for future projects like the new Forth crossing?
Who is going to pay for all the Scottish Water upgrades and ongoing costs?
Who is going to pay my pension in 10 years time?
Oh yes, of course, the Scottish tax payer!

Boydy

 

[jimmymac]

I think you would be yes, you could not trade with europe as you wouldn't be allowed in the EU, the free parking and prescriptions you get now would have to go surely as you will have to fund yourselves and Salmond is telling porkies regarding North sea oil, it belongs to BP and Norway oil, I cannot imagine BP just handing over the rigs and kit can you? What about the ship yards and naval and airforce bases which employ thousands up there? what about the businesses which survive around the Naval and airforce bases? Should Scotland leave the union the ship yards and military bases will move south and you will lose out won't you?

One of the main reasons I will vote yes is to get rid of the Faslane base. If we house nuclear weapons then we are a target for nuclear weapons, I say get rid of them as they are inhumane and immoral

 

[Dcf]

Most Chinese takeaways sell the delights of the mars bar tempura style already no change needed there Mayfair.
selling off your sub base to the Chinese or Russians is a hypothetical question I know.
but if the Americans can put a missile base in Poland what would stop wee eck selling out ?
money talks after all.
would we be in the eu or NATO ?who knows.
we could get rid off all the meps and mps in one swoop what's not to like.
do the English really think that we stand with the begging bowl out all the time and everything here is paid for by Westminster?
like no one in Scotland pays any tax ,vat or the like?
if that was the case it would be great but it's not unfortunately
we have resources you would like to keep of that there is no doubt.
but to accuse us of being subsidy junkies and being nothing without England's backing is going to **** off the most mild mannered scot

 

[jimmymac]

I love a good referendum debate! Dcf, did you hear about the Scottish renewables act in the house of lords?

 

[jaypp]

Wasn't that something Salmon did?

Sounds fishy to me.!!

Think I've said this in a previous thread, Scotland are predicted to be Europe's biggest supplier of electricity from wind farms. Not long ago, on the net, looked at land for sale there and existing/granted windmill sites on behalf of someone else (never went further). Land seemed to be snapped up quickly despite economic climate (I understand people with ££ will buy in these times knowing it will pick up giving better return than banks etc.). I'm with Murdoch in that there is more to it than joe public is aware of, and think if 'YES' vote, Scotland will be the place to be, with its lucrative resources.

 

[jimmymac]

Especially if your a wind turbine electrical technician ;-)

 

[Dcf]

Indeed jimmy yet more dirty tactics.
tidal power would be the way forward .
my brother does rov work in the oil game and says there is a 15 knot tidal current that runs constantly in the North Sea somewhere
plop a few turbines down there and you have it cracked.
the referendum has wider implications for the likes of Spain with the Catalans watching it with interest.

 

[jimmymac]

I don't think anyone can argue that renewable energy is the future and it's only a matter of time before it takes over the oil & gas industry, maybe not in our lifetime but it will. I believe there are tidal barrage's already in place around the Highlands. I think that's where Scotland's future lies, no disrespect to the rest of the UK but I think Scotland has the brightest future of the lot

 

[jaypp]

Indeed jimmy yet more dirty tactics.
tidal power would be the way forward .
my brother does rov work in the oil game and says there is a 15 knot tidal current that runs constantly in the North Sea somewhere
plop a few turbines down there and you have it cracked.
the referendum has wider implications for the likes of Spain with the Catalans watching it with interest.

What amazes me is the fact displacement of water will drive a turbine and yet a simple construction to utilise four per day is still (correct me if wrong) being 'developed'. Might check to see how many patents have been bought by energy companies!

 

[jaypp]

RE Scottish people hating English, never experienced it other than banter much like many other town to town, footy club to footy club etc. anywhere else. Am part Scot and spent summer holidays with grandparents near Dunoon as a kid. Did a spell doing electric bed installs there (rough areas too) and have holidayed as an adult a number of times, and am again this August near Fort William.

 

[Adam W]

A very good question - after all we may want to get rid of them!!

I reckon that's the answer - the point of the referendum is to allow the Scotch to vote for what they think is best for Scotland, whereas everyone else would be expected to vote on what they think would be best for everyone, themselves included, which might be seen as selfish.
The Scotch voting themselves out could be seen as voting for a fresh start, a new beginning, which can be made to sound a lot more positive than everyone else voting to boot them out.

 

[Adam W]

As for Scotland being better off, socialism doesn't seem to have worked for anyone else, but I'm sure the Scotch will be able to make it work.

 

[PEM]

I can understand Scotland wanting to be independent especially with the two public school idiots running this country!! To save millions and ensure all parts of the UK stand a chance simply get a government that merits appointment through honesty, hard work, and being in tune with the people.
On second thoughts hell no change of that happening so run Scotland run whilst you have the chance!!