Seperate Circuit For Fridge/freezer !!

[Lighthouse Phil]

The use of the FSU would do away with the requirement for the RCBO / RCD protection - makes sense.
I was on a RECI course recently and a few of the sparks were giving out about having to use a RCBO for the freezer, the RECI guy was kindda insisting it was a reqirement under the ETCI regs.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

There's no point in using an FCU.
BS7671 only requires socket-outlets intended for general use by ordinary persons to have RCD protection.
If a socket-outlet is intended for use with a specific appliance, such as a fridge, freezer, washing machine, etc. even a TV, Sky box or a computer, there is no requirement for it to be RCD protected.
Of course, if the cable supplying a socket-outlet is concealed in a wall, then that's another matter.
As forgetting a house holder to sign something stating they are an skilled or instructed person.
It wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on.
BS7671 allows for skilled or instructed persons in commercial/industrial installations, because legislation (EAWR) requires that they be so.
There is no legislation requiring any one using a domestic installation to be skilled or instructed.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Hence the reason why all circuits within a domestic shall be protected by means of an rcd.....

Actually, there is no requirement to protect any circuits, other than those of a special location in BS7671

 

[SirKit Breaker]

I go down the RCBO route for freezers and smoke alarms. But i always install a non rcd protected socket, usually a twin directly at the side of the consumer unit, then if the RCD or whatever does have a tantrum the the customer has a get out of jail card if i have been drinking etc and cant get there tonight. I do this irrespective of the Consumer unit location and make a note to the effect on the EIC of "Socket adjacent to Consumer unit is for emergency use only and has no RCD protection, and must under no circumstance be used to power appliances outside without the use of a plugin or similar Residual Current Device". I have been doing this forever, and even the Elecsa assessor thought it was a good idea on one of the jobs i was assessed on a year or 3 back. I know it doesn't help if the householder is away, but they could always plug the freezer into it for the duration of their abscence.

Cheers.........Howard

 

[SirKit Breaker]

With the greatest respect circuit why do you put smokes and heats on an rcbo? I thought it was classed as a safety circuit and so wouldn`t it be ok to pull a feed from a lighting way? The theory being that if the lights go out then so does the feed to the smokes. It would be unreasonable for people to walk around in the dark? My theory may be wrong...

As far as i am aware you can do either. On a new install i put a seperate circuit in for the smokes and use a dedicated RCBO so that if one of the RCD banks goes down the smoke alarms dont. If i retrofit and cant shove a new circuit in then i tap into the lighting as you say and then fit RF bases. I would much prefer to put smokes on a MCB with no bloody RCD but we cant unfortunately unless we move heaven and earth digging out walls or any other ways and means at our disposal to comply with the regs. I think the "Using a normally used lighting circuit" has something to do with the MCB rating of the light circuit, and if the lights have power then so do the alarms, but the alarms have a green indicator light anyway to show they have power.

Cheers...........Howard

 

[Paul P]

Is there not someware in the regs that allow a non RCD socket for freezers and the like proovided it is marked as such. So its just the cable issue.

 

[mechelec]

i don't rcd freezers on new work

i'll be keeping the fire risk from fridges and freezers at the back of my mind anymore when installing smoke alarms
Danfoss warns UK public of fridge and freezer fire risk
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/05/beko-fridge-freezer-fire-warning

don't know if the 30mA would protect on any of these faults-apparently they go up like a bonfire

Thanks for the link. Believe it or not I have a Hotpoint fridge that we bought in 1990 that is still in the kitchen today and still works a treat. I pulled it out and low and behold a yellow danfoss sticker on the compressor. I have sent them an email and hopfully it will get sorted (a nice new fridge would be nice but i wont hold my breath) dont worry i have smoke alarms and an RCD protected circuit.

 

[davelerave]

The use of the FSU would do away with the requirement for the RCBO / RCD protection - makes sense.I was on a RECI course recently and a few of the sparks were giving out about having to use a RCBO for the freezer, the RECI guy was kindda insisting it was a reqirement under the ETCI regs.

no they're mistaken phil

ET 101:2008 page 308 (irish rules)

in order to improve the reliability of the supply to freezers and similar appliances,either of the following 2 methods of supply may be applied

1-a fixed outlet from a circuit not protected by an rcd

2-a dedicated socket-outlet circuit protected by it's own separate rcd

 

[kamkam]

cut the plug off the freezer and wire it into a connection unit. Therefore no one can moan about the socket being used for other purposes. Put the freezer in the dedicated freezer house outside the main house. Get the owner to sign sommat to accept that he is now an "instructed person" and accepts full responsibility for management of the freezer room and it's use

Yeah but then you void the warranty of the appliance

 

[malcolmsanford]

Is there not someware in the regs that allow a non RCD socket for freezers and the like proovided it is marked as such. So its just the cable issue.

Reg 411.3.3 part (b) of the exception part.

 

[Engineer54]

Yeah but then you void the warranty of the appliance

That's just pure scaremongery, your not going to void any warranty but cutting a moulded plug from an appliance power cord/lead!!!

 

[Guest123]

That's just pure scaremongery, your not going to void any warranty but cutting a moulded plug from an appliance power cord/lead!!!

I agree, particularly if you are a qualified electrician.

 

[davelerave]

i looked at a website a good while back -where they stated removing plugs voids warranty

suppose they'd have to back it up in court

i'll see if i can dig up the link again

 

[davelerave]

Removing a plug from an electrical appliance- voiding the guarantee

that's the old link

could be waffle that they can't back up-if replacing the plug hasn't caused damage:confused5:

 

[Guest123]

" A Comet approved engineer"

He'll be nowt more than someone who may have done the 2377.


I hold with contempt the way 'engineer' is bounded around so loosely by all and sundry these days!!!