Should this fitting be bonded to earth

[mainline]

I have asked the contractor to come back, remove the fittings. Big circle seal of mastic behind cable entry, refit and connect the earth to the provided terminal. He is refusing. I have to warranty a large number of these for 2 years, with no manufacture warranty. In 1 month 3no have failed and as a minimum I would like to reduce the chance of failure. In the process I’d like them earthed. This is in a kids school. Care takers/maintance engineers and cleaners could potentially touch or inspect failures. I don’t want these to be a reflection of our workmanship or keep paying to rectify. And obviously don’t want anyone to get a belt.

I’ve paid them for the work but still owe a little for other jobs. I’ve only asked if I have it sorted (1man, 1 day max) and I’ll hold the risk and he covers the rectifying costs.

If he does come and do the mastic he is refusing to earth them. So I have kind of feel like I’m holding a too bigger risk.

I think they should be earthed. Even if installed correctly.

I would dump the lights along with the contractor.

 

[James]

This is a right sheet show.

if the lights are marked as class 2 then they don't require an earth.
if the guy installing them thinks they don't comply with class2 requirements (as marked), they should not fit them.

mastic is not likely to provide a suitable IP rating for the enclosure, a suitable gland and seal would be required.

any outdoor light like that will end up leaking eventually and a small hole in the bottom will stop it filling up with water.

If I employ a subcontractor to do installation work for me, then the brief is clear.
Do it my way or walk away, the chance to voice opinions or change how it is done is when discussing the upcoming job, not afterwards.

 

[mainline]

I have asked the contractor to come back, remove the fittings. Big circle seal of mastic behind cable entry, refit and connect the earth to the provided terminal. He is refusing. I have to warranty a large number of these for 2 years, with no manufacture warranty. In 1 month 3no have failed and as a minimum I would like to reduce the chance of failure. In the process I’d like them earthed. This is in a kids school. Care takers/maintance engineers and cleaners could potentially touch or inspect failures. I don’t want these to be a reflection of our workmanship or keep paying to rectify. And obviously don’t want anyone to get a belt.

I’ve paid them for the work but still owe a little for other jobs. I’ve only asked if I have it sorted (1man, 1 day max) and I’ll hold the risk and he covers the rectifying costs.

If he does come and do the mastic he is refusing to earth them. So I have kind of feel like I’m holding a too bigger risk.

I think they should be earthed. Even if installed correctly.

Does the supply have rcd protection.

 

[P1wack]

This is a right sheet show.

if the lights are marked as class 2 then they don't require an earth.
if the guy installing them thinks they don't comply with class2 requirements (as marked), they should not fit them.

mastic is not likely to provide a suitable IP rating for the enclosure, a suitable gland and seal would be required.

any outdoor light like that will end up leaking eventually and a small hole in the bottom will stop it filling up with water.

If I employ a subcontractor to do installation work for me, then the brief is clear.
Do it my way or walk away, the chance to voice opinions or change how it is done is when discussing the upcoming job, not

Does the supply have rcd protection.

This is a right sheet show.

if the lights are marked as class 2 then they don't require an earth.
if the guy installing them thinks they don't comply with class2 requirements (as marked), they should not fit them.

mastic is not likely to provide a suitable IP rating for the enclosure, a suitable gland and seal would be required.

any outdoor light like that will end up leaking eventually and a small hole in the bottom will stop it filling up with water.

If I employ a subcontractor to do installation work for me, then the brief is clear.
Do it my way or walk away, the chance to voice opinions or change how it is done is when discussing the upcoming job, not afterwards.

I opened a fitting up due to a fault. Turned out water ingress. If you look at the picture of the back plate it’s got two sections to drill a drain hole. I’m going to drill a drain hole. I’m also going to mastic. Like I said. Just to reduce my risk. Obviously all fittings or accessories have to be installed to manufactures guidelines. These have been modified. Holes have been made in the fitting where they shouldn’t . The lights were tech subbed as per the data sheet. We can’t be on-site to supervise every installed accessory or fitting.

 

[P1wack]

Does the supply have rcd protection.

Yes

 

[P1wack]

Data sheet says Earth is required. Sticker says class 2. Wasn’t clear if the sticker was referring to the gear tray. Now we know.

Surely any competent spark would just earth the back plate! (And install correctly)

 

[P1wack]

Look at anything else designed as class II or double insulated, and you’ll see the terminals are enclosed within a plastic box, and restrained.

It’s basically what the square within a square symbol signifies.

if a core comes out of the terminal, it can only touch plastic…. Even if the body of the fitting is metal.


Admittedly, some of the little plastic boxes that come supplied with certain decorative fittings leave a lot to be desired…. But the thought was there.


How does kingfisher customer service, who sent the email, explain the data sheet? They are contradictory.

See response. Manufacturer is a ---- show

 

[freddo]

I really don't like the single insulating coming into the fitting, through a bare metal hole, on an un-earthed metal enclosure. Are there connector blocks behind the fitting or something to join the flex to the building wiring?

 

[P1wack]

I really don't like the single insulating coming into the fitting, through a bare metal hole, on an un-earthed metal enclosure. Are there connector blocks behind the fitting or something to join the flex to the building wiring?

The single cores are where the cable was pinched. It’s now been rectified. But no the fittings massive metal body doesn’t need to be earthed. Because it’s a class 2 fitting. I would earth it anyway regardless of what the manufacture said

 

[JM1TTY]

100% should be bonded. Next to the earth symbol there is a small elevated hole which should either have came with a screw to screw into this or if it didn't he should have used a self tapper in this and a crimp on the earth is what i would have done. Also whys the light fitting got a level build into it if its a circle? which also isn't level Does it have a decretive faceplate that should be level?

 

[westward10]

100% should be bonded. Next to the earth symbol there is a small elevated hole which should either have came with a screw to screw into this or if it didn't he should have used a self tapper in this crimp on the earth is what i would have done. Also whys the light fitting got a level build into it if its a circle? which also isn't level Does it have a decretive faceplate that should be level?

It is an "eyelid" diffuser so it needs to be level.

 

[P1wack]

100% should be bonded. Next to the earth symbol there is a small elevated hole which should either have came with a screw to screw into this or if it didn't he should have used a self tapper in this and a crimp on the earth is what i would have done. Also whys the light fitting got a level build into it if it’s a circle? which also isn't level Does it have a decretive faceplate that should be level?

Kingfisher said they can’t supply a screw the. It wouldn’t be classed as a class 2 product. An M4 fits and is being used going forward

 

[JM1TTY]

Kingfisher said they can’t supply a screw the. It wouldn’t be classed as a class 2 product. An M4 fits and is being used going forward

Thats good im surprised the electrician didn't attempt to bond it himself though it's ridiculous. That's the problem with lights from IKEA these days etc they give you a light fitting that doesn't require an earth cause they class it as a certain class then give you the smallest connector block in the world with a rubber shroud round the cables going to the fixture. If you've got more than one cable at your light which also is higher than 1mm to make it even worse a light that should take 5 minutes turns into 45 minutes.

 

[plugsandsparks]

I am trying to understand the manufacturers position. They must know electricians dont really want to run a supply to a lamp without an earth as this will cause issues down the line. So an earth needs to go somewhere. The electrician used a wago and TBH it is one way of doing it, so as to satisfy the requirement to have an earth available should the fitting be replaced with a class 1. I personally don't see what issue would arise if the earth post is used. In some ways its a lucky find because most class 2 light fitting dont have a recognisable method to deal with the earth supply cable, hence they either end up in a blind choc block or a wago.

 

[P1wack]

Thats good im surprised the electrician didn't attempt to bond it himself though it's ridiculous. That's the problem with lights from IKEA these days etc they give you a light fitting that doesn't require an earth cause they class it as a certain class then give you the smallest connector block in the world with a rubber shroud round the cables going to the fixture. If you've got more than one cable at your light which also is higher than 1mm to make it even worse a light that should take 5 minutes turns into 45 minutes.

I am trying to understand the manufacturers position. They must know electricians dont really want to run a supply to a lamp without an earth as this will cause issues down the line. So an earth needs to go somewhere. The electrician used a wago and TBH it is one way of doing it, so as to satisfy the requirement to have an earth available should the fitting be replaced with a class 1. I personally don't see what issue would arise if the earth post is used. In some ways it’s a lucky find because most class 2 light fitting dont have a recognisable method to deal with the earth supply cable, hence they either end up in a blind choc block or a wago.

Might as well put it on the body right? The provided post. Just to be safe! No brainer