Shower Isolator

[Brilec]

Have to do a job next week that involves fitting new shower, cabling isolator and standalone shower CU, as unable to update old main CU. Question is they don't want a pull cord as an isolator, loft space is not really possible, they would like a switch for shower on wall by door, Inside the bathroom. This would be 2 metres away from shower and mounted aroundabout top of door height, having looked at the regs, it seems that this would be ok but would like others opinions

 

[D Skelton]

A lot of old boys on these forums would kill us for these statements

 

[Guitarist]

Depends what the "manufacturers instructions" say. Some stipulate a DP isolator, and we all know that we have to follow instructions to conform with the regs

 

[Moses]

A lot of old boys on these forums would kill us for these statements

Why is there an isolator for :

Cooker?
Immersion Heater?
Washing Machine?
Dish Washer?
Fridge?
Boiler?
..........................?

 

[johnboy6083]

That is true.

 

[johnboy6083]

Often its for convenience, not safety. The cooker isolator is a safety issue IMO, as often rings/ovens ect can be left on by mistake so the isolator/switch is an extra precaution to stop injury or fire.The dishwasher ect is convenience. another bug bear for me is when people install fused spurs as isolation for fridges or dishwashers. It means that you often have 2fuses to replace rather than the one in the plug top. Double pole 20A switches can be used instead.

 

[Guitarist]

There is nothing that says that a shower must have local isolation. Or fans for that matter. If you need to work on the shower, then theres no reason why you couldnt isolate it at the CU. This also goes for fans. People harp on about requiring local isolation, but if you needed to isolate a socket, then youd do it at the CU. Isolation doesnt have to be local either. Often in a house, its relativley simple to find what MCBs supplies what circuit.

Isolation for a socket is really a moot point, as the plug provides the isolation for the load, along with a switch on most sockets if you don't want to unplug.
It's not really "harping on" either. I always fit a local isolator for showers and fans, because it provides local isolation for maintenance, as well as the convenience of disconnecting the supply without moving a ton of stuff from in front of the average CU (unlabelled in most houses I visit).

 

[Moses]

Isolation for a socket is really a moot point, as the plug provides the isolation for the load, along with a switch on most sockets if you don't want to unplug.
It's not really "harping on" either. I always fit a local isolator for showers and fans, because it provides local isolation for maintenance, as well as the convenience of disconnecting the supply without moving a ton of stuff from in front of the average CU (unlabelled in most houses I visit).

Hear hear !!!!

 

[Guitarist]

Often its for convenience, not safety. The cooker isolator is a safety issue IMO, as often rings/ovens ect can be left on by mistake so the isolator/switch is an extra precaution to stop injury or fire.The dishwasher ect is convenience. another bug bear for me is when people install fused spurs as isolation for fridges or dishwashers. It means that you often have 2fuses to replace rather than the one in the plug top. Double pole 20A switches can be used instead.

In over 20 years I think I have replaced maybe 2 or 3 blown fuses on appliances, rarely due to a fault. Can you honestly say that you often get problems with having to replace 2 fuses due to an electrician fitting an SFCU, rather than a DP switch?

 

[D Skelton]

Why is there an isolator for :

Cooker? If it has an integral on/off switch, or if it contains no motors ie, a non fan assisted oven, it wouldn't need one.
Immersion Heater? An immersion heater has an accessible isolator to satisfy reg 554.3.3
Washing Machine? Doesn't need one to satisfy the regs, although would be a pain in the bum to change a blown fuse in a plug rather than a SFCU above.
Dish Washer? As above
Fridge? An accessible means of switching off is achieved by the plug. If it's a fitted fridge, then a SFCU or isolator should be used if there is no other means of readily accessible switching off.
Boiler? Mainly to satisfy gas regs.
..........................?

Local isolation in domestic circumstances is very rarely needed, but almost always preferred.

 

[johnboy6083]

You raise fair points mate, and I agree. I also install local isolators where possible, for convenience, but unless I'm mistaken, they are not required by the green book.Often I find myself installing things a certain way, because of either specification, or because it's common practice.I meant no offence using the "harping on" reference, just a figure of speech.Often specifications cover worst case scenario, and insist that everything is done a certain way, but only 10% of an installation is subject to those conditions, and no discretion is allowed.

 

[johnboy6083]

In over 20 years I think I have replaced maybe 2 or 3 blown fuses on appliances, rarely due to a fault. Can you honestly say that you often get problems with having to replace 2 fuses due to an electrician fitting an SFCU, rather than a DP switch?

I've found that when replacing a fuse in an FCU, or socket, the other one doesn't last long after. Not many times, but it's avoidable, and 20a switches are cheap and common. I also think they are asthetically pleasing. Of course this is my opinion, and open to discussion

 

[Moses]

Local isolation in domestic circumstances is very rarely needed, but almost always preferred.

It may not be required by the regs but its common sense.

We have electric/electric appliances for modern convenience.
We install Local isolation for safety & convenience.

 

[hagmeister]

Thats the way I thought about it - most showers have the above switches inbuilt and if isolation is required, flip the MCB down - you'll know which one cos you would have labelled it on installation!! Also if no roof space available, how you gonna get to the shower unit? Under the floor, (tiled presumably), and then the "making good" would only be a little more involved if a pull switch WERE to be added compared to the massive amount for the shower wiring itself?

 

[D Skelton]

It may not be required by the regs but its common sense.

We have electric/electric appliances for modern convenience.
We install Local isolation for safety & convenience.

Erm, I think we're arguing over the same point???

Have a read of my post again.

 

[Des 56]

Shower isolators are the perfect tool for 90% of faults on shower installations with those obligatory burnt cores of course

Other than the above and some peoples obsession with using them like a light switch,I reckon installations would be safer without them