Shower (room) questions

P

pncomms

Right you reg's experts - ive pawed through mine and can't come up with an answer I am happy with. I have a shower/utility room, with a fixed cubicle shower with basin. First question: Can I run the (IP) rated shower cubicle light and ventilator fan from the ceiling isolator via an FCU, so that they both come on when the pull cord is operated. The room has a separate pull cord for the normal lights but I don't want to shower light/fan to run when this is used. Apparently the on site guide says a water heater of more than so many litres HAS to be on it's own circuit but ive got the NIC version and there is nothing in that about it, and a shower ain't really a water heater as such is it? Obviously the shower light and fan would be off the same circuit as the shower, via the FCU. Is this allowed? Second question: I have a freezer and washing machine outside zone 2 but less than 3 meters from zone 1. The clearly regs say you cannot have a socket outlet less than 3M from zone 1, obviously, but my NIC on-site guide says you can have stationary equipment such as washing machines beyond zone 2 supplied by a socket outlet or FCU??? How's that work then? It is implying that they can be beyond zone 2 not 3M from zone 1, and fed from a socket (page 191 for anyone with the NIC on-site guide). I would use an FCU anyway but am confused.
Any suggestions?
 
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pncomms said:
Right you reg's experts - ive pawed through mine and can't come up with an answer I am happy with. I have a shower/utility room, with a fixed cubicle shower with basin. First question: Can I run the (IP) rated shower cubicle light and ventilator fan from the ceiling isolator via an FCU , so that they both come on when the pull cord is operated. The room has a separate pull cord for the normal lights but I don't want to shower light/fan to run when this is used. Apparently the on site guide says a water heater of more than so many litres HAS to be on it's own circuit but ive got the NIC version and there is nothing in that about it, and a shower ain't really a water heater as such is it? Obviously the shower light and fan would be off the same circuit as the shower, via the FCU. Is this allowed? Second question: I have a freezer and washing machine outside zone 2 but less than 3 meters from zone 1. The clearly regs say you cannot have a socket outlet less than 3M from zone 1, obviously, but my NIC on-site guide says you can have stationary equipment such as washing machines beyond zone 2 supplied by a socket outlet or FCU??? How's that work then? It is implying that they can be beyond zone 2 not 3M from zone 1, and fed from a socket (page 191 for anyone with the NIC on-site guide). I would use an FCU anyway but am confused.
Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with a light and fan being switched separately from other lights.

Re the FCU off the dedicated shower circuit - exactly how do you anticipate getting 2 x 6mm into a FCU?
 
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was a thread last week about feeding a fan from a shower. read that. it's several pages long.
 
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I was planning on using an approved junction box to take another 6mm spliced from the load side of the isolator to the FCU. This will be located in an accessible location for I&T. What exactly is the problem with that?
 
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pncomms said:
I was planning on using an approved junction box to take another 6mm spliced from the load side of the isolator to the FCU. This will be located in an accessible location for I&T. What exactly is the problem with that?
Click to expand...

Why not simply take the fan/light feed off the light circuit? Talk about making things difficult for yourself
 
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pull switch for light. pull switch for fan. big pull switch for shower ... sorted.
 
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The problem, is that it looks ****. And has been mentioned before, they will get left on. Can everyone take the emotion out of this and tell me why it is either dangerous or "crappy" to split the load side of the shower isolator with an approved junction box and run the resulting 6mm to an FCU and then onto the light/fan. If this junction box is in an accessible location for I&T why is it a problem? Where in the reg's is it not allowed?? I take the argument that the less joints the better but as long as the job is done properly I fail to see why it is a fire or any other risk.
 
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"second question: I have a freezer and washing machine outside zone 2 but less than 3 meters from zone 1. The clearly regs say you cannot have a socket outlet less than 3M from zone 1, obviously, but my NIC on-site guide says you can have stationary equipment such as washing machines beyond zone 2 supplied by a socket outlet or FCU??? How's that work then? It is implying that they can be beyond zone 2 not 3M from zone 1, and fed from a socket (page 191 for anyone with the NIC on-site guide). I would use an FCU anyway but am confused.
Any suggestions?"

wire straight into an fcu or just a flex outlet ? if its plugged in its not stationary if its wired in, its not moving.
 
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simpson93 said:
"second question: I have a freezer and washing machine outside zone 2 but less than 3 meters from zone 1. The clearly regs say you cannot have a socket outlet less than 3M from zone 1, obviously, but my NIC on-site guide says you can have stationary equipment such as washing machines beyond zone 2 supplied by a socket outlet or FCU??? How's that work then? It is implying that they can be beyond zone 2 not 3M from zone 1, and fed from a socket (page 191 for anyone with the NIC on-site guide). I would use an FCU anyway but am confused.
Any suggestions?"

wire straight into an fcu or just a flex outlet ? if its plugged in its not stationary if its wired in, its not moving.
Click to expand...
I take your point about wired in being def stationary, but the guide specifically says via a socket outlet or FCU. Are the NIC wrong then??
 
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pncomms said:
Right you reg's experts - ive pawed through mine and can't come up with an answer I am happy with. I have a shower/utility room, with a fixed cubicle shower with basin. First question: Can I run the (IP) rated shower cubicle light and ventilator fan from the ceiling isolator via an FCU, so that they both come on when the pull cord is operated. The room has a separate pull cord for the normal lights but I don't want to shower light/fan to run when this is used. Apparently the on site guide says a water heater of more than so many litres HAS to be on it's own circuit but ive got the NIC version and there is nothing in that about it, and a shower ain't really a water heater as such is it? Obviously the shower light and fan would be off the same circuit as the shower, via the FCU. Is this allowed? Second question: I have a freezer and washing machine outside zone 2 but less than 3 meters from zone 1. The clearly regs say you cannot have a socket outlet less than 3M from zone 1, obviously, but my NIC on-site guide says you can have stationary equipment such as washing machines beyond zone 2 supplied by a socket outlet or FCU??? How's that work then? It is implying that they can be beyond zone 2 not 3M from zone 1, and fed from a socket (page 191 for anyone with the NIC on-site guide). I would use an FCU anyway but am confused.
Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
eh?..

i suppose it isn`t even an instantanious one is it....
 
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pncomms said:
The problem, is that it looks ****. And has been mentioned before, they will get left on. Can everyone take the emotion out of this and tell me why it is either dangerous or "crappy" to split the load side of the shower isolator with an approved junction box and run the resulting 6mm to an FCU and then onto the light/fan. If this junction box is in an accessible location for I&T why is it a problem? Where in the reg's is it not allowed?? I take the argument that the less joints the better but as long as the job is done properly I fail to see why it is a fire or any other risk.
Click to expand...

Rubbish - how many shower isolators are actually used.

Is this for you or a paying client?
 
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It's for me. I take the point that most isolators are not used, I am just trying to keep the clutter down by using the shower isolator as a dual purpose one, as the shower is actually in a downstairs utility room and seldom used anyway. I just don't want the place turning into a pull-cord slalom course, and it is obvious the light/fan will get left on if on separate pull cords. I am beginning to think the best course of action would be to install some kind of automatic switching, either by using a flow or humidity sensor, or a contactor, but if the latter, you are still joining the cable.
 
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pncomms said:
It's for me. I take the point that most isolators are not used, I am just trying to keep the clutter down by using the shower isolator as a dual purpose one, as the shower is actually in a downstairs utility room and seldom used anyway. I just don't want the place turning into a pull-cord slalom course, and it is obvious the light/fan will get left on if on separate pull cords. I am beginning to think the best course of action would be to install some kind of automatic switching, either by using a flow or humidity sensor, or a contactor, but if the latter, you are still joining the cable.
Click to expand...

isolator switch on outside wall above doorframe

Lile everyone else does
 
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mmmm. It's still breaking into the shower circuit, which, although no-one has actually provided a technical reason for not doing, it is not ideal. I think I am going to use a humidistat, as someone has suggested earlier, seems like an ideal solution to me, and just put the shower light onto the other room lights. In fact, the more i think about it, the better it gets, fan will run on after the shower is used until the humidity levels drop.
 
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now you're talking sense. you could also consider an occupancy sensor for the light/s.
 
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pncomms said:
mmmm. It's still breaking into the shower circuit, which, although no-one has actually provided a technical reason for not doing, it is not ideal. I think I am going to use a humidistat, as someone has suggested earlier, seems like an ideal solution to me, and just put the shower light onto the other room lights. In fact, the more i think about it, the better it gets, fan will run on after the shower is used until the humidity levels drop.
Click to expand...

I would NEVER recommend breaking into a dedicated circuit for a shower. The fewer connections you have the more reliable it will be.

Such changes should be made via the lighting circuit and as its in a bathroom could well fall under Part P and are therefore notifiable
 
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It is recommended to have high power items on dedicated circuits to avoid the inadvertent risk of overloading a circuit and to prevent high current faults impinging on low current equipment.

It is best to minimise the number of junctions in a heavily loaded (or any) cable as joints can be a source of high resistance and overheating (witness the number of over heated shower switches due to a poor connection).

If you want a shower and a fan / light to run together it is best to either have a control mechanism indirectly driven from the high power appliance (as in the current sensing switch) to control the fan /light.
It would also be possible to use a contactor (in place of the shower switch) to power the shower that is operated by switching on the light / fan.

The other alternatives are to have independent control. So if it is dark in the shower someone is likely to turn the light on and so the fan, similarly the humidistat idea operates the fan when needed (which would be when the shower is in use), a motion sensor covering the shower area could also turn on the light / fan in a similar manner.
 
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