Smart meters- anyone had problems?

[polo1]

Hi all. Anyone had any problems with installations with a smart meter, after removing the (unsealed) DNO fuse & then reinstating the supply i.e. Do they throw a wobbly or just continue to work as normal?
I appreciate that they can issue a supply failure signal to the MOP, but anything else?
Cheers.

 

[Spoon]

Below is a bit of info I got from the Department of Energy and Climate Change regarding these smart meters.

We expect the battery life of smart gas meters to be 15 years. (gas meter display only updates every 30 mins there the elec on is every 30 seconds)

Information on a consumer’s electricity and gas consumption is stored on the smart meters. Consumers will be able to access this information via the In Home Display, by securely connecting another device (a Consumer Access Device) to their Home Area Network that allows the smart meter to communicate other devices in the home, or by requesting information from their supplier. The In Home Display, which will be offered to all domestic consumers, will give the consumer near real time information on their electricity use, enabling them to see what energy they are using and how much it is costing

Consumers will have control over who has access to their data, apart from where this is required for billing and other regulated duties. As part of the data access and privacy framework, suppliers will be allowed to access monthly data for billing purposes. Customers may opt out from allowing suppliers to access daily data, or opt in to allow suppliers to access half-hourly data. Suppliers will be required to explain clearly to their customers which data is being used, for which purposes, and what choices the consumer has about this. Thus, if a consumer has opted in to giving the supplier access to half hourly data, then the supplier will be allowed to collect information covering half hourly periods.
Energy UK has published a Data Guide which explains which data will be accessed from the smart meter, for which purposes, and what choices customers have about this: Smart meters | Energy UK - http://www.energy-uk.org.uk/policy/smart-meters.html

 

[polo1]

Thanks for the responses. I've no idea of the make/model of the meter, though it's in domestic premises. I just don't want to end up leaving the customer with no power if the meter locks out or whatever, with possible costs to have it sorted.
Anyone else have practical experience of powering down these bl**dy things?

 

[freddo]

Funny, reading this thread now I've just had a call from my electricity supplier asking if I wanted to replace my smart meter! I told her that I wasn't interested, and she asked if I knew about the benefits of having a smart meter. I told her again that I was not interested and I hadn't changed my mind from the last 2 times I wasn't interested. She didn't try any more after that, the best part was she sounded really pis.sed off. Sadly I've only once been able to make a telemarketer cry. I must try harder, but I often find it difficult not to laugh when I'm wasting their time...

 

[guy@secure]

Well I certainly believe we should keep an eye on the whole issue of smart meters. It is really eye opening what they are capable of. They are effectively PA machines and certainly can "spy" on users habits. They have a cut off mechanism it is pictured on the meter diagrammatically and it is acknowledged by energy suppliers on this forum a couple of weeks ago.

Instead of engaging in tin-foil hat speculation, why don't you just read the SMETS1 technical equipment specification? It tells you exactly what the meters are capable of. There's a similar document for SMETS 2.

I'll even give you a starter

7.1.1.51 Load Switch A component that can close or open (including on receipt of a Command to that effect) to Enable or Disable the flow of electricity to and from the Premises.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/299395/smets.pdf

 

[The Ghost]

Well thanks @guy@secure for vindicating my "tin-foil hat speculation". If you analyse what was said you have said exactly what I have stated. I have made reference to where information I have discussed is available to look at rather than speculate. If you search on the forum I am sure it should not be too difficult for you to find. I suppose you work for a meter installation company and that would explain your attempt ad hominem attack on the material/author? If you wish to contribute to a conversation I remind you of the requirement to keep it polite and professional if you are able to. Furthermore you may not be aware but there are considerable data protection considerations for these smart meters, now why would that be? I'll give you a starter: Rhetorical question.

 

[ipf]

Hey up, another track.
Maybe they're trying to scare me into it now....
They never wrote about 'not being able to check my meter', only my meter being phased out.

 

[Des 56]

Its not all about what the meters are capable of
The lack of trust in the reasons for gathering that data, the use of the data that is accumulated,it makes me doubt whether it is wise to have them at all

It may also be a gift to the meter operators for a means of disconnection that will surely be misused in many situations

And last but not least,they annoyed many electricians when the meters were sanctioned to be installed without a isolator, a once in a lifetime opportunity to do something that would actually be of benefit was discarded

 

[Des 56]

It looks as though they have gone into threat mode ipf
Maybe they think that they can install a smart meter on the basis of checking and changing a old or knackered one,but they can't

Consumer rights (Which)

Now the official roll-out has started, energy companies have been asked to take 'all reasonable steps' to install smart meters in every home, however you still have the right to refuse a smart meter.

 

[ipf]

It looks as though they have gone into threat mode ipf
Maybe they think that they can install a smart meter on the basis of checking and changing a old or knackered one,but they can't

Consumer rights (Which)

Now the official roll-out has started, energy companies have been asked to take 'all reasonable steps' to install smart meters in every home, however you still have the right to refuse a smart meter.

Those' tin foil hats' won't be much help when the bricks start flying, eh?

 

[guy@secure]

Well thanks @guy@secure for vindicating my "tin-foil hat speculation". If you analyse what was said you have said exactly what I have stated. I have made reference to where information I have discussed is available to look at rather than speculate. If you search on the forum I am sure it should not be too difficult for you to find. I suppose you work for a meter installation company and that would explain your attempt ad hominem attack on the material/author? If you wish to contribute to a conversation I remind you of the requirement to keep it polite and professional if you are able to. Furthermore you may not be aware but there are considerable data protection considerations for these smart meters, now why would that be? I'll give you a starter: Rhetorical question.

I work for neither a MOP or a MAP so I have no position to defend in that respect. I made no judgement about the the links provided, more an observation on the level of knowledge in evidence and some rather far-fetched conclusions e.g. ‘spying on user habits’.

You said earlier in the thread ‘if anybody knows anything give it up’. Had you done a google search you would have found the specification which has only existed since 2014, detailing all the functionality of a smets1 meter. You don’t need a ‘meter expert on tap’ to understand the spec, it’s there in black and white.

You seem concerned that the meters have a remote arm/disarm switch as if this is some terrible, dark secret. As an example, a change of tenancy situation, where a building may be vacant for a period of time might make use of this functionality to disable a supply until required.

And finally, I am only too aware of the data protection implications and security requirements of the field, working as I do in an environment governed by ISO 27001, the government’s Information Security Management standard.

 

[The Ghost]

@guysecure no one said you are making judgements. What I said is that you are making ad hominem attacks. This is the way a lot of people attempt to win an argument by snidely insulting a person in order to denigrate them in the belief that it will weaken the validity of posits put forth by that person.
Personally I find such tactics in discussion extremely reprehensible. Again you could not resist doing the same in your latest missive. Clearly you do have an agenda to defend and I am sure it will be revealed as time goes on. While I get the sense you are here to liberate those peasants who live in ignorance about smart meters, that may not be quite the breeze you are assuming. The points you raise have not convinced me that smart meters are a wonderful thing quite the contrary and I do regard with suspicion the move to install smart meters in homes everywhere by 2020.

You seem concerned that the meters have a remote arm/disarm switch as if this is some terrible, dark secret.

What rational basis do you have for making that statement? And if I am concerned what concern is it of yours?

more an observation on the level of knowledge in evidence and some rather far-fetched conclusions e.g. ‘spying on user habits’.

Again an unnessary attack implying the level of knowledge is far below at least your lofty position and an attempt at inverted commas around "spying on users" despite your assurance that you are only too well aware of the privacy implications. This clearly indicates that you have not the faintest idea of the impact smart meters have on peoples perception of the operation of them.
The information that can be collected from these meters does have profound implications for the clients privacy if you feel for whatever reason that is not the case then fair enough. However point scoring by running down others will not cut any ice with me and I will call you on it. I remind you once again of the requirements of this forum to keep it polite and keep it professional. I would also add to that keep it rational.

 

[Darkwood]

Just my penenth on this and cover a few points raised, I have personally refused a meter upgrade by my supplier on 2 occasions mainly due to them wanting to install a generation 1 meter which in many cases is not compatible with other suppliers if I decide to change supplier, this could see me with additional costs to swap supplier.
The smart meter logging of power outage has been and does get used as evidence of tampering, I know because I had a friend who got caught up in this, he had a new meter fitted when he moved into the house and a year later he rang them because he wanted to change his consumer unit and the electrician needed an engineer to come out and do the change over to the new board... their quote was extortionate for what what a 15min job (About £350) so he went down the path of getting it done himself, it would seem this request had put him on a watchmode and when the meter was powered down it logged time, date and duration, as this didn't tally with any network power problems then the cause of the power down was investigated, subsequently he found himself in court as he would not disclose who withdrew the cutout fuse, in the past the energy companies have had difficulties going to prosecution as it was never easy to prove when a meter lost power.
I am not surprised at all if there is a cutout option in smart meters as this would be of a great advantage, when the supplier wants to stop power been used at the moment it is a costly method of sometimes having to gain forced entry, utilising the police service etc etc and the following legal costs in doing so, if you can simply send a signal to shut down it would take seconds to do. There is also the other advantages like network faults, if you tell the meters to lock out in power down this is of a great advantage to network engineers when the local grid is energised again, it limits existing load when energising and thus helps prevent mains transients that can damage equipment, I wouldn't be surprised if following a power up that a area could effectively be signaled to energise each property with a smart meter in steps as oppose to all at once.

 

[The Ghost]

Is your home’s energy meter spying on you? | Fox News « Stop Smart Meters! (UK) - http://stopsmartmeters.org.uk/is-your-homes-energy-meter-spying-on-you-fox-news/

Is your smart meter spying on you? - https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/jun/24/smart-meters-spying-collecting-private-data-french-british

Smart meters could be 'spy in the home' - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/6292809/Smart-meters-could-be-spy-in-the-home.html

The security problems with smart meters - https://conversation.which.co.uk/home-energy/is-my-smart-meter-spying-on-me/
Just a few viewpoints of irrational papers/people who consider the "far fetched" idea of meters spying on people. Baco foil shares must be rocketing, buy!

 

[The Ghost]

Smart Meter energy company fined $390,000 for spying! « Stop Smart Meters! (UK) - http://stopsmartmeters.org.uk/smart-meter-energy-company-fined-390000-for-spying/ and this is a beaut.

 

[Darkwood]

I find the whole smart meter spying argument a bit strange, the same people who actively raise issue and complain about user usage gathering are usually people who probably hold FB accounts, bank accounts, forum memberships, use smart phones, shop on line, use credit cards etc etc .... the list is very long all of which gather and monitor how you use their services and sell such info in some cases and some like FB actually gave out personal info everytime you allow another app' to load onto your FB as you often click on a tab to allow said access, it's strange you don't see them actively raising issue and protesting against these bodies yet have issue with the energy provider for what is in context a minimal intrusion in comparison.