Smoke alarms in VERY big house

[Welchyboy]

If your going by 5839 regs then your looking at a minimum B LD2, I would definitely be installing some kind of indication device/panel and a zonal arrangement, call points would be omitted I would think

I would not really sit comfy with just bunging in whatever the customer wants because there's no building control involved, I'm not sure how that would stand up if the worst happened

 

[tazz]

This is correct, and would be stated on the design certificate as a variation to what type of system was requested.
As stated if building control or local authority were involved, there would be no question that a grade A LD1/2 would be required. But as a private home, you cant tell the owner what he can and cannot fit in his owm property. Have delt with this type of situation so many times, and local fire officers state, its better to have some form of detection than none at all

 

[Des 56]

A panel would be ideal, if the customers has the will and the readies,if not the smoke alarms can have what could be considered a mini indication panel,a switch to test, locate and hush

 

[tazz]

If your going by 5839 regs then your looking at a minimum B LD2, I would definitely be installing some kind of indication device/panel and a zonal arrangement, call points would be omitted I would think

I would not really sit comfy with just bunging in whatever the customer wants because there's no building control involved, I'm not sure how that would stand up if the worst happened

In an ideal world I would agree....but we have to remember there is no law insisting that a private home owner has to install a smoke alarm in the first place. Correct certification showing the system requested and why it is a variation against the BS is basically a backside cover

 

[Welchyboy]

In an ideal world I would agree....but we have to remember there is no law insisting that a private home owner has to install a smoke alarm in the first place. Correct certification showing the system requested and why it is a variation against the BS is basically a backside cover

I suppose that's the problem though, the fire regs are only recommendations, so you have to balance that with what the customer will accept/pay for, and as des56 says maybe the aico detectors to LD2 with the additional locator/test device somewhere is a good way forward

 

[kingeri]

I will definitely be installing the central control point from Aico to allow silencing, testing, locating. If it transpires that a panel is required then I might have this work be carried out by an alarm company.

Incidentally, when you install smokes, do you just issue the normal EIC, or a dedicated certfor smokes, or both?

 

[TAZ]

Hi Tazz sorry i did not realise there was another by the same name no offence mate If the house was built before 1992 there was no requirement to fit interlinked smoke alarms & as you say nobody can make you install one But if the customer requests some kind of smoke alarm system as is the case here & it is carried out by a competent person they have a duty of care to install it to current standards. I think if it is carried out under the radar & some thing goes pearshaped the insurance could well be void . I do see your point dealing with customers can be a real pain & it seems to be all about covering your own tail these days I get this all the time with out side floodlights the new LED floodlights to give a decent amount of light are so cost prohibitive compared to a conventional tungsten flood light

 

[tazz]

I will definitely be installing the central control point from Aico to allow silencing, testing, locating. If it transpires that a panel is required then I might have this work be carried out by an alarm company.

I think were getting a bit carried away with standards, if this property was commercial or HMO then all standards would need to be complied with, for building control etc.
As I stated there is now law or criteria insisting an individual must install a fire alarm in their private home. (unless it is a ne build or renovation covered by building control)
So if the customer says I want smokes and not a fire alarm system, hey its his house....!

 

[tazz]

Hi Tazz sorry i did not realise there was another by the same name no offence mate If the house was built before 1992 there was no requirement to fit interlinked smoke alarms & as you say nobody can make you install one But if the customer requests some kind of smoke alarm system as is the case here & it is carried out by a competent person they have a duty of care to install it to current standards. I think if it is carried out under the radar & some thing goes pearshaped the insurance could well be void . I do see your point dealing with customers can be a real pain & it seems to be all about covering your own tail these days I get this all the time with out side floodlights the new LED floodlights to give a decent amount of light are so cost prohibitive compared to a conventional tungsten flood light

You can only advise the customer on the current regs, but its not always cut and dry.
Example 4 story house in London, listed building so insurance comapny insist on smoke protection.
Customer is unhappy with having control panel fitted and due to ceilings being 18th cent. and cables fitted in old gas piping. she does not want any mains opperated smokes. So we fitted 11 x battery opperated radio linked smokes with 10 year batteries. On design cert we stated Grade F and variation to BS due to limited electrical supply and possible damage to decor, system was install to customers request.

 

[TAZ]

Yes TAZZ i respect that rationale my friend, as a plumber friend of mine said sometimes "You can only do what the job will let you do" & i guess the powers that be can do a text book job on a clean sheet of paper when imposing there regulations from above, but on site it is a different ball game

 

[tazz]

Totally true, and this is why the BS gives you guidance and variations to overcome problem installations.
As the above example I posted, the design, specifications and report on why only this system could fitted was sent and passed by the insurance company and the client.