Smoking...

[Silly Sausage]

[h=2]3. Smoking[/h]In the very earliest days of communal drinking, pubs used to be little more than crude huts where people huddled together for a drink and a chat. This style of meeting place has re-emerged as the smokers' shelter outside virtually every pub. Often there's more fun and better conversation to be had in the smokers' shelter. Smokers are naturally more sociable and entertaining than non-smokers, possibly because they know they haven't got long to live. For non-smokers in the pub it's a little bit disconcerting drinking or eating with smokers as they disappear every half an hour.

 

[telectrix]

fair enough in summer, but in this weather you'll not get me freezing my nuts off in a so-called smoking shelter which is deliberately open on the side of the prevailing wind and rain, hard wooden seats (if any) that make your arse ache after 5 minutes, a half-arsed attempt at heating with a pathetic little 5watt heater banged up with a couple of 4" nails, on a 30 second timer, fed with a bit of scrap T/E stripped out on the rewire to make the non-smokers inside all comfy.

 

[ian.settle1]

fair enough in summer, but in this weather you'll not get me freezing my nuts off in a so-called smoking shelter which is deliberately open on the side of the prevailing wind and rain, hard wooden seats (if any) that make your arse ache after 5 minutes, a half-arsed attempt at heating with a pathetic little 5watt heater banged up with a couple of 4" nails, on a 30 second timer, fed with a bit of scrap T/E stripped out on the rewire to make the non-smokers inside all comfy.

Easy cure stop smoking:earmuffs:

 

[kingeri]

Smoking shelter at my local is luxurious, it has an electric heater and a wood burner, it's bordering on being an extension to the pub actually.

 

[telectrix]

close, but no cigar. it's easy for some. balance has to be struck between the physical detriments of somoking weighed against the psychological, stress relief from smoking can reduce the incidence of ulcers, strokes, etc., at the end of the day, can we really trust doctors who initially bled patients as a a cure-all, prescribed thalidomine, drink to excess, and who all still think that all diseases are caused by smoking, drinking, and eating, come on!!!,

 

[Des 56]

In a very short time people will look back to the past and be aware that pubs and clubs had smoking bans and now no longer exist

The traditional pub without the smoker has already virtually ceased to exist
Its now a choice of not drinking or drinking in one of those "stuff your face full of food while you consume alcohol places" that make mockery of pretending to be a pub

The smoking ban will have destroyed the fantastic social gathering that was the pub,it has turned this once great institution into a non smokers dump

Even my non smoking mates rue the day this ban was introduced in the form that it has been,they prefered their social life as it was to the non smokers dumps that remain,non smokers who liked the traditional pub have been hoodwinked into supporting the destruction of their social way of life

 

[telectrix]

well put, des. pubs are no longer pubs, you can't move for tripping over pushchairs. they're like mothercare shops with bad attitude

 

[markc123]

I am going to be controversial here, oooft....

3. Smoking

In the very earliest days of communal drinking, pubs used to be little more than crude huts where people huddled together for a drink and a chat. This style of meeting place has re-emerged as the smokers' shelter outside virtually every pub. Often there's more fun and better conversation to be had in the smokers' shelter. Smokers are naturally more sociable and entertaining than non-smokers, possibly because they know they haven't got long to live. For non-smokers in the pub it's a little bit disconcerting drinking or eating with smokers as they disappear every half an hour.

I'm a non-smoker and always have been, i am a minority amongst work colleagues and drinking mates...and i for one am glad of the smoking ban, especially when im having a meal - the last thing i want is to be breathing in someone elses second hand smoke when im trying to enjoy a greasy burger. Yes, my pals do often go outside every half an hour but thats completley fine by me i can enjoy my meal and go home smoke-free

On the flip side, the amount of 'birds' that smoke and say "you got a light" in a smoker area is unbelievable - easy way to break the ice & chat the females up :38: ....so stop bloody moaning you smokers

Do agree that pubs have compleley changed with the ban though, and you're all right - probably for the worse. Endless amounts of kids their all hours of the day, less lock-ins, less randomly organised amature poker matches & to be honest an all round worse atmosphere. But still, i don't have to breath in others smoke anymore Can see both sides to the smoking ban debate to be fair.

 

[telectrix]

i don't disagree with you there, mark. eating areas should be smoke free. most pubs would have been happy to have the bar only as a smoking area, but that was not good enough for blair's fascist state.

 

[monkeyelectric]

I am going to be controversial here, oooft....



I'm a non-smoker and always have been, i am a minority amongst work colleagues and drinking mates...and i for one am glad of the smoking ban, especially when im having a meal - the last thing i want is to be breathing in someone elses second hand smoke when im trying to enjoy a greasy burger. Yes, my pals do often go outside every half an hour but thats completley fine by me i can enjoy my meal and go home smoke-free

On the flip side, the amount of 'birds' that smoke and say "you got a light" in a smoker area is unbelievable - easy way to break the ice & chat the females up :38: ....so stop bloody moaning you smokers

Do agree that pubs have compleley changed with the ban though, and you're all right - probably for the worse. Endless amounts of kids their all hours of the day, less lock-ins, less randomly organised amature poker matches & to be honest an all round worse atmosphere. But still, i don't have to breath in others smoke anymore Can see both sides to the smoking ban debate to be fair.

Thats why i always carry a lighter despite being a non smoker, true it does make me look like an arsonist but still before the smoking ban my local pub was so smokey some nights that you had a job to see the smoke was so thick and coupled with the eye stinging but i for one will agree the local pub was a lot better back then! Whenever we go out for a few beers now when all the smokers go out for a smoke i go with them so i'm not left in the bar on my own, although some nights its too damn cold and rainy so i stay inside like billy no mates

 

[markc123]

Yeah, split the pub half smoking and half non-smoking would be more than adequate to be fair. Now the laws been changed though i can't ever see it going back. I can't even remember when the ban was now, was it 2007 or something?

 

[telectrix]

around then. 2007/8.

 

[simpson93]

certainly effected some pubs down my way, 4 local to me closed in the last year 3 of which are now tesco expresses

 

[monkeyelectric]

Yeah, split the pub half smoking and half non-smoking would be more than adequate to be fair. Now the laws been changed though i can't ever see it going back. I can't even remember when the ban was now, was it 2007 or something?

I can't see it ever going back how it was which is a shame, yeah i think it was 2007, it seems longer than that though

 

[Darkwood]

3. Smoking

In the very earliest days of communal drinking, pubs used to be little more than crude huts where people huddled together for a drink and a chat. This style of meeting place has re-emerged as the smokers' shelter outside virtually every pub. Often there's more fun and better conversation to be had in the smokers' shelter. Smokers are naturally more sociable and entertaining than non-smokers, possibly because they know they haven't got long to live. For non-smokers in the pub it's a little bit disconcerting drinking or eating with smokers as they disappear every half an hour.

May i say a little biased in your view ..... obviously you smoke and ill make clear now i dont, firstly smokers attract smokers and usually congregate together as is with non smokers, i have both smoking and non smoking mates and do pop out to the smoking shed with them ... i find the conversation no different or lesser in quality from non-smokers in the pub to smokers outside.
I have no issue if someone smokes as long as they respect im a non smoker ill respect their addiction and need to smoke i only have strong views on parents subjecting their kids to second hand smoke and believing winding the car window down is enough to stop the carcenogenics getting into their kids lungs but thats another debate altogether, getting back to your comment with respect 1 out of 5 adults smoke and this is declining fast so at an 80% non smoking adult population the majority of people will stay in the pub and if you find this not to be the case then its probably more to do with the pub and the custom it attracts...... smokers are usually like minded with similar views on this and other related subjects which when chatting to like mindedpeople makes for good talk ....its only when you subsequently join in with a conversation of non-smokers often enough you find the conversations not as enjoyable in comparison but it dosn't mean they are any less enjoyable to those partaking in them...... your just in a different mind set.

 

[Darkwood]

The smoking ban has had little if any effect on footfall in the pubs...agrre there was an initial adjustment but most pubs actually attracted new custom of non smokers also the peeps that smoked in the pubs before still go in the pubs and smoke outside the new generations entering the pub scene have never known it any other way... what has killed off the pb trade is rising drink costs forced onto them by both the goverment and breweries as well as price wars in large supermarkets bringing off the shelf alcohol to all time lows..... its has seen a worrying new trend of loading up and going out late already smashed which has also seen a rise in violence related to this habit... our local pub dosn't get anyone in till past 11 on a saturday night then its packed and most are at home first and yes its the younger gen' pub but the other pubs that attract mid to older gen have steady footfall throughout.

So i say banning smoking in pubs killed them off is a false argument often used by smokers to rally up support for what they believe is a right to smoke inside a pub.

 

[telectrix]

agree. it's not just the smoking ban. also cost. another factor...... i called in one of my locals the other day. new tenants. pool table ..gone. dartboard.., gone,, fruit machine... gone. and in has come plastic and chrome crap and the cost of a meal has doubled. another pub off my listof places to visit.

 

[markc123]

A pub without a pool table deserves to be closed - its a crime.

Removing a pool table from a pub is basically the same as castration.

 

[Darkwood]

When you can get 20 cans for less than a £10 why on earth in these times of recession would you spend £70 to do the equivalent in a pub .....until the goverment does something about it it wont change and more pubs will go under.... ironic that the goverment has put limits on pubs doing happy hours and drink deals yet supermarket are allowed to do 24hr happy hours.

The board of directors in charge of price regulation on booze has if i remember has 80% of its members tied someway or another into the alcoholic industry and its not in their interest to damage their profit margins and upset their shareholders so any new legislation to increase alcohol cost off the shelf have always been scuppered.. the goverment at the time was helpless to do anything about it so they asked the supermarkets to work together to stop the cheap booze but they had no interest in doing so and its taken a new goverment to overrule the commitee in charge of regulating prices and bring in new legislation to put a minimum cost per unit of alcohol.

Where this pricing system has been enforced like Scotland their has already been a slow trend of pubs getting earlier trade as a result.

 

[RyanCheetham]

I have been a non smoker all my life and over the last few years slowed my drinking down to almost none. This is MY choice and i believe everyone is capable of making there own choice and should not be forced into a small hut or disallowed from a building because they choose to smoke, if it bothers other users of the building then they can choose to leave of there own accord. Its a stupid idea put in force by a nanny state and is yet another contributing factor to the downfall of our country in my opinion. However my only gripe with smoking is when i am on site and i get moaned at for stopping for coffee too often yet no one batters an eyelid at the workers who stop every hour for a smoke

 

[markc123]

I have been a non smoker all my life and over the last few years slowed my drinking down to almost none. This is MY choice and i believe everyone is capable of making there own choice and should not be forced into a small hut or disallowed from a building because they choose to smoke, if it bothers other users of the building then they can choose to leave of there own accord. Its a stupid idea put in force by a nanny state and is yet another contributing factor to the downfall of our country in my opinion. However my only gripe with smoking is when i am on site and i get moaned at for stopping for coffee too often yet no one batters an eyelid at the workers who stop every hour for a smoke

What upper class sites do you work on? Where i am its more like every 10mins.

 

[Darkwood]

Ryan you look young and wander if you remember smoking in a pub, as a non smoker your eyes would become sore, your clothes stank of smoke, it damaged your health as well as the staff it left poisoness residue over all the surfaces in the form of a yellow tar, you clothes were regulary ruined by a clumsy drunks smoke touching you ..... now are you seriously saying that even though i have a choice i should refrain from socialising with a beer because of the minority of society believe its their right to smoke anywhere they want..... i know many smokers and very few hold the opinion you just gave they also believe now that withsmoking comes respect to those who dont.

Now if i was to walk into a smokers house then i 100% agree that he shouldn't feel like he cant light up as its his little empire and i entered it... where as the pub is public and not his personal space so with respect to the health of others they should respect their habit does effect the health of others. If drinkers were in a regular habit of drinking their beer then puking all-over a non drinker anytime they entered a pub this would seem intolerable so why is it so wrong to put this to smokers and their habits....

PS ... its no-smoking day next week

 

[RyanCheetham]

I see your point Darkwood, my case was that it is peoples choice and they should not be forced into it, however it would be good if they had did go into a hut willingly due to there own respect for others

 

[Des 56]

Ryan you look young and wander if you remember smoking in a pub, as a non smoker your eyes would become sore, your clothes stank of smoke, it damaged your health as well as the staff it left poisoness residue over all the surfaces in the form of a yellow tar, you clothes were regulary ruined by a clumsy drunks smoke touching you ..... now are you seriously saying that even though i have a choice i should refrain from socialising with a beer because of the minority of society believe its their right to smoke anywhere they want..... i know many smokers and very few hold the opinion you just gave they also believe now that withsmoking comes respect to those who dont.

Now if i was to walk into a smokers house then i 100% agree that he shouldn't feel like he cant light up as its his little empire and i entered it... where as the pub is public and not his personal space so with respect to the health of others they should respect their habit does effect the health of others. If drinkers were in a regular habit of drinking their beer then puking all-over a non drinker anytime they entered a pub this would seem intolerable so why is it so wrong to put this to smokers and their habits....

PS ... its no-smoking day next week

I can see that your views on smoking are exactly those that make this ban so infuriating to myself and others who hold quite a contrary position

Your comments are very one sided and extremly polarised with regard the existence of smokers in society

I hold the view that there are far greater and far more damaging health agendas in society that could have been tackled without, or before,this obsessive onslaught on those who chose to smoke

I use the word obsessive because never have I known so much energy and effort put into a cause than that of the anti smoker,he feels it is somehow his right and his duty to impose "his" lifestyle on those who chose otherwise ( I use the term anti-smoker in contrast to non smoker by the way)

You are but one in many in society who appear to have this "unhealthy" obsession, By the way,that word is used very deliberately


With my choices and my actions and my opinion.I find it incredible and become very angry, that views that I detest can have their will imposed on my way of life

Firstly,lets dispel the myths and untruths that you and others with your viewpoint proclaim to the world as your justification for your interference with my choice of lifestyle
(A big smokers "Mind your own business sign" would be the satisfying way of reopening the pubs of this country once again)


I don't impose my second hand smoke on anyone
Never in my life have I been in a restaurant and lit a cigarette
Smokers are not asking to be permitted to mix with the likes of yourself and stain and make smell your smoke free clothing
Smokers are not asking to frequent the places that you eat,drink,shop,do busimess.work or otherwise frequent
In fact the less contact we have the better for everybody concerned

I am a smoker in a familly of non smokers,however I came from a familly of smokers
Never has my smoking been inflicted on my own non smoking familly
I have 2 sons who detest the smell and the pastime of smoking.I understand the view from the other side of the fence as it were

You support and others like you support the no smoking ban and in its entirety no doubt,you may be more than happy if we did not exist,but exist we do,we pay taxes and vote and have familly and aspirations, no different to yourself

We also "had" freedom like yourself,however that was removed by the people with your views who think it is their right to impose those views and their lifestyles on us smokers

You should have no such right,I don't for one moment make apology for doing something that I enjoy and enjoy thoroughly
I can afford and will continue to practice smoking as I have done for nigh on sixty years,I will probably put up with future obsessive tagetting,but continue I will and hopefully also continue never having used the health service

I have never knowingly subjected the non smoker to unwanted affects of my pastime and don't seek to do so should this ban be modified
Neither would I dream of imposing my opinion on those of other opinions or practices when its none of my business,that's your freedom that should not be removed by anyone


When the ban was introduced,it was a blanket vindictive rule of law,that vindictiveness as and will continue,mainly because of the obsession of the anti smokers that you represent

There was and is a simple modification to the ban that would have been sensible.protected the non smoker from the effects that are vastly exagerated of health implications and allowed freedom to continue for all the people of the land instead of those who sought and succeeded in imposing their will on others

Be I a smoker or non smoker,I need to frequent shops,I need to visit places of government,I may need to visit the library,I may need to visit the park,the list can be endless
Wherever a non smoker has little or no choice to frequent,smoking has and should be banned,that is not for one moment contended

You are free to do your business,go to your work,eat in your pretend pub and ride your smoke free bus,you will not be subjected to this horendous nightmare that you imagine smoking to be

However,below is where freedom was and has been removed

It is an absolute and non negotiable fact that the social structure,ie the pubs have been destroyed in their once proud place as the cornerstone of life in Britain,it has been destroyed
I will agree that pricing and big brewery food mania as taken its toll,but the vast percentage of non use of pubs is because smokers in their tens of thousands decided your obsession was a step too far and ceased socialising

A great percentage of the non smokers left in the once thriving social gatherings (where they found themselves short on friends and atmosphere) they followed the smoker out the door,perhaps never frequenting the pubs again,that is when they died

The younger generation have been introduced to three quarter empty pubs and they know no different,they see little attraction in these places and do not associate a pub as anything other than fill your face venue, created by this non smoking obsession

Every pub could and should have had the freedom to chose whether they were smoking pubs or whether they were to be non smoking pubs
That choice was never given because your view had to be imposed or it would not have prevailed,most would have chosen to permit smoking
It was to force the public into following government policy and the will and obsession of the anti smoker lobby that freedom of choice was removed

If choice had been allowed,those that chose smoking could be free from the interference of your kind, nobody would be forcing non smokers to enter a leisure establishment (the pub) that they feel is detrimental to their health or their cardigans

They would not have their hands tied behind their backs and forced to mix with the objects of their obsession
They would have smoke free pubs to discuss the vile habit till their hearts content

But most of all they would not have imposed their will on something that should not be their business
Smokers would have used their own establishments.probably swelled vastly by the majority of non smokers who seem not to be as obssessive as some parts of the anti smoking community

I have kept this debate to smoking,freedom and pubs,the wider subjects like the NHS ,costs of healthcare and taxes can be kept for another day,where the debate is also not as one sided as portaryed

 

[cotty]

Well said Des56.

As a smoker I couldn't agree more.

Most smokers I know,including myself are considerate towards non-smokers.

That consideration wasn't forthcoming for us smokers when they took away our freedom of choice and ruined the institution of the British Pub!

 

[Darkwood]

I nearly got through all that but will pick up on a few pointers .... remember back in the 80's now from a non-smokers angle i couldn't use public transport, eat out, go to the pub, go to the cinema, get in a taxi etc etc without the breathing in someone second hand pollution which does damage health whether a smoker or passive.... this has been proven time and time again using data from 80yrs worth of smokers, their effects on society and their family model.
Your obesity comparison holds little ground in my mind although your points are agreeable about it i personally will not suffer ill health if the large man next to me is scoffing a jam doughnut whereever he decides to do it. You need to remember that nicotine is one of the most if not the most addictive drugs in the world with relation to its effect per mg and its instant addictiveness, now given that it is so addictive and yet its introduction meant it got too large a hold on society before the dangers were realised... once it had its hold there was little the then goverments could do about it as it took several decades to gather enough irrefutable evidence to even consider restricting its use or banning it.


You say just because im a non smoker im biased but im am not, im not having a debate about its positive effects on the user nor the negative im talking from a point of view of someone who dosn't smoke been subjected to it just because they fancied watching a film at the cinema or even take their wife out for a meal...now yes you may consider yourself considerate smoker and feel your been unfairly treated but answer me this ... i saw a women in her mumbus bringing her kid him (about 5yrs old) and she was smoking in the car (mother not the kid), now where are the rights of that kid to not be exposed to a onslaught of damaging carcenogenic chemicals just because the mother believes its her right to smoke in the car ...... the toxic levels in a car with the window down from smoking are measured at 10X the safe level now this is akin to actually giving your child the cigerrette direct ......ahhh! we all cry if you saw the same mum letting the child smoke a smoke then she would create a right media storm and possibly loose her child but yet she can do it indirectly.


As i said i have smoking freinds and 20yrs ago they all cried victim when it was stopped in cinema's, eating venues, public transport etc etc and were stuck in the same mind set that todays smokers are in today with regards pubs.... but asking them now they agree that places like restaurants and buses should be smoke free but at the time their views were very different.

We are in a transition phase with smoking and it usually take 10yrs for any change to be accepted by those who it effects directly but given time and the many arguments against smoking it has a habit of changing the view of the smoker..... tell any smoker fresh from out of school that in the 80's smoking was allowed in cinemas and food venues and they won't believe you then usually agree with the ban in these areas....

I so often see smokers justifying they are been victimised by comparing with other national issues like drinking, obesity, drug addiction you name it but all these other addictions are not passive ... the fat guy who sat next to you on the bus isn't going to give you obesity or the lad who just passed you with a can of lager isn't putting you at risk of liver failure even with repeated exposure and if anything the nearest argument you have to compare is dirty needles left by drug users posing a health risk to anyone who accidently get jabbed by one.... and yes they are always pumping millions into fighting the war on drugs so its not like they are been left alone.

All the points meantioned have other tolls on society and the NHS but thats for another debate and not really the point im relaying here, in essence if you are a smoker who respects the health of non smokers then in my books you fine, i go 50/50 with my mates they always ask if in my garden if i mind if they smoke of which i don't but the thing is they are polite enough to ask.... i hate the whinging smokers who believe they have been dealt a bad deal and been it from all side ...well no sympathy here...

You smoke for a reason so either blame your parents if they brought you up in that climate or blame yourself for having an illegal underage crafty smoke at school but unless your in your 50-60's then you were always taught at school the dangers of smoking in school ...you chose to ignore it ...you chose to break the law if you were a kid and now your hooked to one of the most addictive drugs on the planet you moan when restrictions are put on you because the goverment is trying to restrict the damage it causes to those who dont smoke.... you are given help in all directions from free prescription patches to E-cigs ...we are in a changing society trying to clean up old past dirty habits and whether you choose to stay a smoker or not restrictions will only get worse in the future and in 10yrs suggest to any young smoker they used to smoke in pubs and they will probably disagree with the thougth of it.

Your freedom to choose if your pub is a smoking pub or not really would never work as it could only ever employ smokers, pool teams, dart teams etc couldn't really visit unless you had a smokers and a non smokers league and if this area is anything to go by its a struggle keeping any league going with falling numbers so that couldn't work and then when a job space becomes available in a smoking pub in a high unemploement area it would only be available to smokers which is against the law to start with...... you consider youself the sole victims but think of the smokers in all the factories having smoke breaks while the non smokers carry on this can amount to 3weekss extra unworked in comparison to the non-smoker and yet for decades we have just accepted this and it still goes on .... we ask for a break several times a day for 10mins we'd be laughed out of the building.... so its not all one sided.

I feel we will never agree on this subject and are both strong in our views but ive read yours and taken them in as i hope you do mine ...im not anti smoking and never have been im just getting to that age now where most of my smoking friends 40's to 50's are now getting a reality check as the negative effects start to effect their health and believe you me these are life smokers with the same arguments as yourself who have changed their views overnight when they get the first health scare....

 

[Des 56]

I have read your well constructed reply,but find that the same old flawed arguments are repeated again and again with familliar repetition (as is usual from the anti smoking agenda)
The post is full of the percieved effects of smoking on health and the right of the non smoker to be afforded protection from the habit

The protection has been granted for quite a few years,the rights of the non smoker have been established,yet the "save yourself from harm" advise continues unabated and unfortunately will continue to do so as far as I can tell

Where does your concern as an anti smoker draw the line ?

I personally don't want or need anyone saving me from myself.
I treasure the freedom to make choices that I decide as an individual are mine to make

My choice to smoke is my "freedom".it is not for people with a non smoking society agenda to impose their choices on me and others like me
If that is allowed to happen (by everybody accepting views such as your own),then freedom itself is in danger,because unfortunately, the agenda has moved on from smoking,it will now follow the path that I forecast over ten years ago,people will now be protected from the next target agenda and the anti fat of this society have started the ball rolling ( I don't meet the definition by the way)

I as a non fatty will in no way have my views on the consumption of unhealthy food imposed on those who like or have this problem, however its defined
Its not my business,the same as smoking is no longer any business of anyone other than the smoker himself

You say in your post that smoking is different to the other target health issues like obesity
I made it very clear that as far as having effect on non smokers.it has no place in society where it could affect those who chose not to smoke

What I still find astonishing is that after having gained all the safeguards that were demanded,it is still Ok to continue the onslaught against the smoker,what right have you or others to decide on matters that are personal choice,my choices, my freedom,choices that you are now isolated from

The anti smokers now need to let go of the bone and relax a little,the stress of interfering in others personal choice may cause health problems and we know what happens when the nanny state gets wind of things that may not be squeaky clean

Be very cautious removing freedom of choice,its a very slippery slope

The anti smoking lobby of opinion is likened to a dog with a bone,they have tasted and boy do they want to hang on to it
Its time the anti smoking lobby put away the manacles of freedom of choice, before their actions explode on the ability of people to do all sorts of things that are not approved of by the "I knoiw better" section of this society

 

[Darkwood]

I truely see your corner but the only critisism is you keep also repeating the same point of it being a perceived health hazard to non-smokers .... we have 3 decades of damming evidence of the effects of passive smoking, some health conditions are directly attributed to smoking and have been seen in non-smoker exposed routinely to the environment, this includes children growing up in smoking households to employee's working in the environment... if the health hazards are so over-exaggerated then why since the initial restriction started has passive smoking related conditions fallen in predicted manor. You point the finger and suggest that we are like vultures clawing at every scrap we can get in legislation against smoking but you seem to use the same repeated arguments which basically come down to a restrictions on your freedom to choose what you do and where... well its such a flawed response when your habit has health consequences for others around you who themselves choose not to smoke .... this is why the situation is unique to smoking as other health problems that non smoking related that are attributed to life choices/style like drinking and obesity do not effect others in the vicinity of the self abuser.

How ever you carry your argument its still to be remembered your a drug addict and like any addiction the habit itself creates your mindset through yrs of defending it trying to justify it and your craving for it, you have got into the habit of ignoring the medical evidence and the decades of statistic that go against you in relation to passive smoking and keep up the 'nanny state' we are been 'victimised' attitude without any other angle for keeping smoking in public venues that are not full of flaws .... yuo cant have a 2-tier smoking system in society where the venues that want to can because 4/5 of their revenue will be out of the door to start with and as mentioned before a pub can thrive with pool, dart/dominoes, poker teams to get pnters in during the week how can it work if you can play 80% of the teams out there... it both makes it expensive and difficult to police as well as confusing creating a 2tier system- its failed in others countries and is unworkable so the only way to blanket ban it.

Im sorry that legislation is to make smoking less attractive and more unsociable but its in the nations interest to limit new smokers taking up the habit and try persuade existing smokers to change their views on the subject and quit and yes like yourself there are always hardened smokers caught in the middle but that is the same with any major change that is trying to improve the health of the nation but every coin has 2 sides and stepping out of the scope of this debate if the nation was healthier then people would live longer and the bill for elderly care would rocket so this coin has several sides in reality but what unique with this debate as il re-itterate is its the only bad legal habit that effects can effect the health of others repeatedly exposed to it because they work in they environment or live in it so rather than rubber stamping me with the tag that i and every other non smoker is on a fixed agenda to make your life hard try thinking of it as protection that i and my children can go shopping, eat out, go bowling etc without been subject to the airborn carcenogenic pollution. I kinda reckon you had the same mindset when they banned it in food venues because you could no longer have a smoke with your full English and cup of tea but do you still hold that view and believe i shouldn't eat out because im choosing to go into a public enclosed area.

 

[Elmer BeFuddled]

Turning into right good debate!

 

[pippa brown]

most pubs and clubs in my area have closed and are now charity shops since the smoking ban. and i agree there is more socialising in the smoking area but then im a smoker so i would say that.

 

[Elmer BeFuddled]

Eire had the ban before we did. I'd worked in Cork for nearly 2 years and after a years sojourn went back to visit friends, post smoke ban. All the pubs with a good craic in them were dead, more people stood on the street than inside. My favourite pub in Middleton (Roses) when I went back after the ban and a year away was empty. Went out the back for me tab. Found everybody! The only people in the pub itself were (a) non-smokers who (b) had to sit down, i.e. like me, old. Two years later the Celtic lion stopped roaring and that virtually killed them off.

 

[Des 56]

I thought I had said all the needed saying,yet have need to respond once again

Yoiu continually trumpet the health hazaed issue as if it still existed,it is gone,it is no more,the battle for clean air and isolation from secondary smoke has disasppeared
There has been a smoking ban imposed and you have your safeguards,why are you continually repeating the hysteria of the implications of smoking on the non smoker ? it no longer exists

What does exist is this obsession of the anti smoking agenda to keep beating the repetative drum
What others choose to do is of no concern to you or anyone with the same attitude,.your agenda is threatening my freedom to do with my life what I chose (as long as it does not infringe on others freedom do what they wish)

Calling smokers drug addicts.it may or may not be the case,it is irrelevant to this discussion,it was possibly intended as some sort of admonishment from on high and is taken with the disdain it deserves

Health
A lifelong smoker, having used the doctors surgery once in perhaps thirty years (that was for a first ever broken bone)with contributions and tax paid (plus the punitive tax on cigarrettes) having to be told by others how to conduct my way of life,that I cost the health service or that my actions are bordering on assault of the non smoker.it is both ludicrous and wrong
The stress levels of these anti smoking lobbys must be through the roof,the health implications alone should make them keep their interference minimal


As I stated earlier,it is time this obsession with smokers was put aside and greater thought should be given before supporting further restrictive legislation which will invariably come

As long as it is seen.post smoking ban,for it to be OK for one group of people to dictate their wishes to another group,freedom of choice will be the payment for interference where its not wanted,as long as you are not affected, the smokers choice is not yours to share





have a smoke with your full English and cup of tea



There lies a perception of a smoker that is far from reality

I have always been as passionate as yourself where food is concerned and served,in fact, my attitude in this regard is the same as yours and always has been,smoking and food were never thought of by me as bedfellows
Neither do i smoke at home(since years before the smoking ban)so smoking outside of pubs was not a new experience to me because I always did so at home

That does not mean that I should dictate my actions to those that do otherwise, neither should you or anyone else
freedom and freedom of choice is much more precious than all other matters, whatever they may be

 

[Darkwood]

Was responding to your views Des with regards of it been an infringment of your personal right to smoke of which i agree it is your choice of which i have no issue, im also responding to your distaste at US non smokers inplementing all these changes as though we were personally on a mission to make your life a misery .... not at all just expressing that every restriction thus far imposed has very good reasoning both for the health of the non-smoker and believe it or not to try improve the future health of the smoker.

Yes its no longer the issue it was the only area left is those that dont get that choice (namely children) and as you may have realised its going to be the next nail in the coffin of the freedom to smoke.

All this aside Des i hope there is no cloudy skies between us its just a subject off topic where we have differing strong opinions and other than that i still hold the same respect as a valued member and excellent contributer to the forum that you are .....

 

[Des 56]

My final post on this subject,(about time said the bored audience with relief )lol

I accept quite a large portion of your argument about health implications of smoking for those people who have been unfortunate enough to suffer the effects

I do not support the view that smoking is anything other than a poor lifestyle choice,apart from the health issue,cost is a very punitive reason not to take up smoking
Neither my Mrs or my sons smoke,both of my sons have opinions much the same as yourself,I am relieved and happy that they have never smoked

Having said that,if they had chose to smoke,it would be their choice and their business only,myself and society has no right to make that choice for them
Whether it be smoking or any other lifestyle choice,the mammy state has encroached on personal liberty far too much for my liking, this subject is the one that reveals to me the dangers of allowing the agenda to go beyond its remit

Your views are the complete opposite of my own in this subject,but as with smoking,my view is that each person has as much right to their opinion as any other,its essential and welcomed if we want to maintain a free society

My opinionated responses in this thread are for this subject alone,your contributions and well presented and informed knowledge for our trade subject has not been changed for one moment.I would be cautious about being argumentative if this were an electrical debate
I and others respect the quality of information you present on a regular basis and long may that continue

Shall we agree that if this thread went on for another ten pages,you and I will not compromise our views
I welcome and enjoyed the debate, because of,not in spite of,the difference of opinion

 

[SPARTYKUS]

I am going to be controversial here, oooft....



I'm a non-smoker and always have been, i am a minority amongst work colleagues and drinking mates...and i for one am glad of the smoking ban, especially when im having a meal - the last thing i want is to be breathing in someone elses second hand smoke when im trying to enjoy a greasy burger. Yes, my pals do often go outside every half an hour but thats completley fine by me i can enjoy my meal and go home smoke-free

On the flip side, the amount of 'birds' that smoke and say "you got a light" in a smoker area is unbelievable - easy way to break the ice & chat the females up :38: ....so stop bloody moaning you smokers

Do agree that pubs have compleley changed with the ban though, and you're all right - probably for the worse. Endless amounts of kids their all hours of the day, less lock-ins, less randomly organised amature poker matches & to be honest an all round worse atmosphere. But still, i don't have to breath in others smoke anymore Can see both sides to the smoking ban debate to be fair.

iquite enjoyed that once at a secret location in Wimbledon.

Knocked on the door at 2am and a rasterman opens a side door with huge plumes of rather herbal smellingsmoke puffing out

"ehh man, whats de password mannn?"

"erer errrr .....I don't fooking know"

"good enough for me man"

you didn't need to spliff up in there I could hardly see it was so thick

 

[tazz]

Arh smoking...I cant help it, but such a split deverse subject, have tried to quit so many times, tried patches, chewing gum, mints, etc....but now on the Joan Collins anti smking program...its great I only have a cigarette after sex....down to 20 a day now.....Brilliant...!

 

[Rich306]

I used to work at a cash converters where one of the workers used to walk outside the back and light up a spliff. Could smell it in the office lol!
I don't mind smokers as long as i'm not breathing it in...

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Its horrible, it stinks, it costs a fortune, its bad for you (and everyone else). But it must be allowed to continue, if it ever gets a total ban, then up goes our income tax by about 5% to cover it.

I packed the bloody things up recently, and wish i had done it sooner. If i had my time again i would never have touched one. Stopping smoking is one of the most difficult things to do. But the important thing to remember is to not give up giving up, a doctor told me this, and he also said that if it is what you want, and you stick at it you will beat the smokes. He was right, i have been off them since October, and have never wanted one since, i had been trying on and off for a good year or 3 though, and always found it difficult until now.

I dont have any problems with those who choose to smoke, i can remember how nice they once felt.

Cheers.............Howard

 

[PEM]

It is interesting that smoking generates debate whereas drinking is socially acceptable.

Few if any incidents of violence, wife battering, kids being killed by drivers, violence on a Friday night are the result of wanting a smoke.

Yes smoking is a life choice those that do have the right to choose so leave them in peace.

Focus on the drunks with the wet patches on their trousers instead.

So much Nanny state it's bl**dy ridiculous.

Makes me angry! Get a life

 

[ruston]

well put, des. pubs are no longer pubs, you can't move for tripping over pushchairs. they're like mothercare shops with bad attitude

Then there is the mobile phone........................