So the Scots vote No on Thursday, how would you vote

[chris murphy]

But why is 60% acceptable when 50.1% represents a majority?
In your scenario then if 59% vote in favour then the majority of people are not going to get what they vote in favour of.
Liken that to the promised in/out referendum on EU membership (which will probably never happen) If the majority voted one way and the government decided to ignore them or moved the goalposts it would be inviting civil unrest and possible anarchy.
Another one could be a vote in the commons, a majority is represented by 327 MPs. If the government goes against them and declares that it is not a viable majority then they are no different from some tinpot dictator in a banana republic.
Either we have a democratic society which goes with the will of the majority or we do not, a majority is a majority.

"Hello again Trev",

PLEASE don`t think that I am patronising You with these comments - I certainly am NOT:

I am NOT stating that the result of the Referendum should not stand / become the Legal situation irrespective of the percentage differential - of course this Democratic Vote with all of the ramifications that the possible `YES` result causes should stand.

I maintain that BEFORE the Referendum was put into place there should have been an indication that there was a much higher percentage of the population who were in favour of a `YES` vote.

I am sure that as this has been debated for YEARS between the Scottish Parliament and Westminster at least a couple of Polls could have been carried out to judge the possible `Yes` percentage - these Polls could have been added to Voting at the Local Elections - the `Turnout` to vote on those Elections would probably have been much higher with this `Vote on possible Scottish Independence` Poll added at Polling Stations.


While I agree with your sentiments about Democracy / `The will of the People` completely regarding matters that MERIT a Vote / Referendum - In MY opinion there should NOT have been a Referendum at all if the almost 50 / 50 - Yes / No situation was found to exist.

There are going to be far too many People in Scotland who are very dissatisfied which ever way the vote goes.

I know that You could state that this is the same as the MILLIONS of People in the UK who voted for the [elected] Opposition in a General Election - BUT that IS a very long standing Parliamentary Election process - NOT a Vote / Referendum that was brought about by what I view as a flawed process.


Regards,

Chris

 

[trev]

Chris I don't think you're patronising me. I like debate as much as (probably more than) the next man.

 

[dingledong]

I see your point and to a point agree, but you don't seem to see mine. Why does an MP who represents your constituency have a vote on something which happens in mine?
Because the system, as flawed as it is, is the best available.

Because your English unfortunately
You live in an area called England so as a democracy this is what we do
Not like Stalin did
We all get to choose and vote

 

[trev]

I know all about democracy Ding, I'm a great believer in it.

 

[dingledong]

Then why are you saying that why should mp's from different places in England not have anything to do with where you live
That's not democracy is it

 

[trev]

If you'd read through what I was saying properly you'd know that was not what I was advocating at all. I was taking the lead from statements made by other people and expanding on them.
For example, if a Welsh MP does not have the right to vote on an issue that affects Tyneside then why should an MP representing a Devon constituency have a say on it?
The point I was trying to get to is you either follow the democratic way which we have even though it is flawed (read back and you'll see me mention that and say that it's the best system we have) or you exclude people from the decision making process.
Excluding people from the process is entirely the wrong way of doing things imo.

 

[dingledong]

So carry it to it's ridiculous conclusion, an issue comes up which affects Cumbria and no other part of the country. By applying the same logic then only Cumbrian MPs should get to vote on it.

This is what you said
No's from other areas let's say essex should not vote on things that might affect Cumbria
But your still in england

 

[trev]

This is what you said
No's from other areas let's say essex should not vote on things that might affect Cumbria
But your still in england

See #37 mate. It'll help you get things in their proper context.

 

[dingledong]

But the government seems to want to give Wales more power to itself so let Welsh mp's vote for there stuff and English mp's vote for our stuff except for major things of course

 

[Adam W]

I always thought specific local issues were mainly dealt with by local councils, and the issues discussed in parliament were issues which would affect the constituents of each MP voting on it. The problem is Scottish MPs are voting on issues such as tuition and prescription fees which don't affect their constituents. It's like turkeys voting on Christmas.

 

[trev]

You're right Adam but the constituency I live in, South Shields, is inside the borough of South Tyneside which stretches from the mouth of the Tyne to the border of Gateshead so the local authority actually covers several parliamentary constituencies. Similarly, a decision taken in Westminster which affects the area could cover many constituencies and many local authorities

 

[pcam1984]

I'm due to vote tomorrow and I still am not 100% sure what way to go. I'll probably vote no. I dont like alex salmond or the majority of the people on the yes team and I dont think that they have been clear enough or answered all the questions asked. On the other side I feel that Scotland is more than capable of being independant and offer a lot to the UK economy and should have more of a say on our own affairs. Some of the underhand tactic from the yes campaign have been shocking, and they seem to want to make out that if you vote no then you are not Scottish. But again tonight I got an email from my employer which was supposed to detail the impact a yes vote would have on the company but actually ended up tearing into the yes campaign and was not about the company. There have been so many conflicting arguments on both sides which make the decision very difficult. As i said earlier I am leaning to the no side and will prob vote for this but some of the comments coming from down south are very narrow minded, to say basically the Scottish can f**k off and crash and burn is not helpful and that the rest of the UK should be worried if there is a yes vote as Scotland play a larger part and contribute far more to the union than we are given credit for.

 

[chris murphy]

I'm due to vote tomorrow and I still am not 100% sure what way to go. I'll probably vote no. I dont like alex salmond or the majority of the people on the yes team and I dont think that they have been clear enough or answered all the questions asked. On the other side I feel that Scotland is more than capable of being independant and offer a lot to the UK economy and should have more of a say on our own affairs. Some of the underhand tactic from the yes campaign have been shocking, and they seem to want to make out that if you vote no then you are not Scottish. But again tonight I got an email from my employer which was supposed to detail the impact a yes vote would have on the company but actually ended up tearing into the yes campaign and was not about the company. There have been so many conflicting arguments on both sides which make the decision very difficult. As i said earlier I am leaning to the no side and will prob vote for this but some of the comments coming from down south are very narrow minded, to say basically the Scottish can f**k off and crash and burn is not helpful and that the rest of the UK should be worried if there is a yes vote as Scotland play a larger part and contribute far more to the union than we are given credit for.

"Hello pcam1984",

I hope that You have not taken offence at my comments.

I definitely have the view that I want Scottish people to have what MOST of them want regarding Scottish Independence / `withdrawing from the UK` - BUT - NOT with a Vote of for example 51% to 49%.

I feel that it is not right to have a Referendum on anything that would produce a change for the whole of the UK where the Peoples opinions are split approximately 50 / 50.

Too many people will be very dissatisfied / very disappointed with whatever the result is.

In MY opinion IF the vote was likely to be for example 60 - 70% for either YES or NO then a Referendum would be appropriate to bring about the change that a significant Majority wanted.

These are NOT an `Anti Scottish` comments - I love Scotland and I have visited many times for short Holidays / Weddings etc. / worked in Edinburgh for 4 Months on a Friends Home and I have many Scottish Friends.

I would have this opinion about a Referendum on any situation that affected the whole of the UK where there was anything like a 50 / 50 split of opinions.



I wanted to make this clear - I am NOT decrying Scotland / the Scottish peoples rights.


Regards,

Chris

 

[Adam W]

trev it's the same where I live - Bournemouth Borough Council covers the constituencies of Bournemouth East and Bournemouth West, and while Tobias Ellwood (east) may lobby the local council for something which affects constituents in the west, it will also affect his constituents, so any unpopular policies could see him voted out at the next local election.
Similarly in Westminster my MP may vote on something which would affect you, but it would also affect me, so for example if he were to vote on a massive hike in prescription charges, no you wouldn't like it, but neither would I, which still affects his chances of re-election.
The issue with a separate Scottish parliament is that issues affecting you and I are voted on by Scottish MPs who come down to decide that we should pay for prescriptions and tuition fees while their constituents get them for free.

I agree that there are a lot of clowns trying to sway people either way - Scots who haven't lived there for years and who it wouldn't affect, and Cameron's grovelling is just embarrassing, although apparently Gordon Brown managed to pull a half-decent speech out of the bag at the last minute.

It seems to me the person speaking the most sense is John Redwood.

 

[pcam1984]

Chris i have not taken any offence from your comments and i agree that a 51-49 split is not a fair result but thats the rules and no matter what the result is I hope that both sides accept it but i dont think thats what will happen, i think that the no matter the result there will be problems.

As for the posts regarding scottish mps voting on english affairs, english mps do have a say in scotland! Not all decisions for scotland are made in scotland, the wesminster government has a large say in what happens here. I think that people should look more at the decisions being made rather than the people making them!