socket circuit

[paddyscouse]

hi can some one advise me what to use for a radial socket circuit, i was thinking about 4 mil with a 32a mcb for kitchen

would then 2.5 with a 20a mcb for other room and the same for upstairs x3 beds

 

[malcolmsanford]

1mm fine, but 1.5mm gives real peace of mind, and costs little more. Also gives the bonus of not having to worry too much about voltage drop. Can be a bit fiddlier (is that a word?) to terminate in cruddy cheap fittings etc. - but no more so than using 4mm instead of 2.5mm on sockets - which is increasingly becoming necessary.

I always used the 1.5mm for loops and 1.0mm for switch drops, just found it easier for identification when terminating, rather that trying to look for a pen to mark it or nick it

 

[telectrix]

so it's you been nicking all the pens then.

 

[Knobhead]

Would also like to know why our OP is so set against a ring?

 

[sedgy34]

Easier for testing purposes pheraps

 

[Strima]

If it's anything like my kitchen then a ring would be a pain in the hoop to put in due to door and window location, easier to run 2 4mm radials. Not looking forward to that job, why is it always easier in someone elses house?

 

[Knobhead]

The customer isn’t as fussy as your wife?

 

[Strima]

The customer isn’t as fussy as your wife?

About right, and at least you can walk away from a customer at the end of the day... :lol:

 

[Engineer54]

Nowt wrong with 4mm radial 32A breaker for kitchen

Maybe, so long as you don't want to break into it, to spur/extend for another or more socket outlets!!

The use of a ring circuit for general socket outlets in a Kitchen, is a no-brainer as far as i'm concerned!! Radials are fine for F/Freezers and other similar appliances. As far as i'm concerned, you design any circuit to the needs/requirements of the installation, including costs to customer, ...not to your own ''Personal'' preferences....

 

[Dave 85]

Ive never understood why people use 1.5 in normal sized houses, absolutely no point whatsoever. 1mm is so much nicer to work with. Peace of mind? What.... incase the IEE got their regs wrong and a 1mm will in fact melt from overloading when supplying 4 pendants 4 downlights and an extractor fan......

I never use 4mm either
Always use rings for everything except fixed equipment >13 amps. Then its 2.5mm or 6mm.
I put 4 rings into a 2 bed holiday cabin the other day. All 6 electric heaters, 2 towel rails and 3 UFH's fed from rings.

I remember reading an article in PE where a guy was saying his firm always feed every bit of fixed equipment in a kitchen on its own individual circuit fed from an RCBO. So I guess this means adding an extra consumer unit, or installing a much larger one and having somewhere in the region of 5-10 circuits supplying the kitchen alone......
pointless and very expensive

 

[somersetsparks]

Ive never understood why people use 1.5 in normal sized houses, absolutely no point whatsoever. 1mm is so much nicer to work with. Peace of mind? What.... incase the IEE got their regs wrong and a 1mm will in fact melt from overloading when supplying 4 pendants 4 downlights and an extractor fan......

I never use 4mm either
Always use rings for everything except fixed equipment >13 amps. Then its 2.5mm or 6mm.
I put 4 rings into a 2 bed holiday cabin the other day. All 6 electric heaters, 2 towel rails and 3 UFH's fed from rings.

I remember reading an article in PE where a guy was saying his firm always feed every bit of fixed equipment in a kitchen on its own individual circuit fed from an RCBO. So I guess this means adding an extra consumer unit, or installing a much larger one and having somewhere in the region of 5-10 circuits supplying the kitchen alone......
pointless and very expensive

My good god, why do 'professional electrician' feature things like this, that is bad practise in a domestic dwelling as far as i'm concerned, futile wasting of customers money, extra cable/quipment wastage etc.
1mm is fine for domestic lighting on 6A even if it was immmersed in 10' of insulation, volt drop would not be an issue in a standard size 3/4 bed house, however I think most firms now use it because of minimal cost difference.
80+ years of domestic wiring have taught us that 2.5 rings are excellent in domestic dwellings, why change now?
I hate nothing more on an I+T then a girt fuseboard rammed with loads of pointless circuits, some read like this
Cooker
Water Htr.
Kitchen downflow
lounge panel htr.
hall panel htr.
Kitchen fan
Lights kitchen
Outside lights
etc.
etc.

And thats just the half of it, A testing nightmare, waste of money etc, almost like a game 'how many circuits can we cram into a 1 bed flat'
Some people think this is 'good practise' however I always say, convention is conventional for a reason!

 

[Top Cat]

Maybe, so long as you don't want to break into it, to spur/extend for another or more socket outlets!!

The use of a ring circuit for general socket outlets in a Kitchen, is a no-brainer as far as i'm concerned!! Radials are fine for F/Freezers and other similar appliances. As far as i'm concerned, you design any circuit to the needs/requirements of the installation, including costs to customer, ...not to your own ''Personal'' preferences....

Why? nothing wrong in 3 x 4.0mm in socket!

 

[sedgy34]

Maybe, so long as you don't want to break into it, to spur/extend for another or more socket outlets!!

The use of a ring circuit for general socket outlets in a Kitchen, is a no-brainer as far as i'm concerned!! Radials are fine for F/Freezers and other similar appliances. As far as i'm concerned, you design any circuit to the needs/requirements of the installation, including costs to customer, ...not to your own ''Personal'' preferences....

cost is neglegable from a 32A new ring circuit to a 32A 4mm Radial circuit

you can also branch off a 4mm radial to a socket with a 2.5 mm t&e

 

[Engineer54]

cost is neglegable from a 32A new ring circuit to a 32A 4mm Radial circuit

you can also branch off a 4mm radial to a socket with a 2.5 mm t&e

Neglegable depends, maybe if your going to supply Everything from that single radial!!!

As i've pointed out previously 2 X 4MM + 2.5mm = 10.5mm Accessory terminal CSA capacity generally 10mm!! Even if you did manage to squeeze them all in, the terminal screws would be protruding beyond the accessory terminal screw guards. I also doubt if the terminal screws will have more than 3 turns on them, if they even have that!!! Not exactly clever or professional, but that's just my opinion, and experience of 4mm final circuits with UK style wall accessories on projects i've worked on... There fine so long as you dont want to break into the circuit at a wall accessory!!

 

[Top Cat]

Neglegable depends, maybe if your going to supply Everything from that single radial!!!

As i've pointed out previously 2 X 4MM + 2.5mm = 10.5mm Accessory terminal CSA capacity generally 10mm!! Even if you did manage to squeeze them all in, the terminal screws would be protruding beyond the accessory terminal screw guards. I also doubt if the terminal screws will have more than 3 turns on them, if they even have that!!! Not exactly clever or professional, but that's just my opinion, and experience of 4mm final circuits with UK style wall accessories on projects i've worked on... There fine so long as you dont want to break into the circuit at a wall accessory!!

http://www.mkelectric.com/Documents...pecifications/T02 LOGIC PLUS Tech 355-389.pdf

As i have posted before, nothing wrong in 3 x 4.0mm in sockets. The screws don't protrude, if its good enough for MK its good enough for me! See above from MK Technical.

 

[Engineer54]

As i have posted before, nothing wrong in 3 x 4.0mm in sockets. The screws don't protrude, if its good enough for MK its good enough for me! See above from MK Technical.

Seen it!! If you believe it go ahead and try!! lol!!
It was the MK wall accessories that we had problems with. in fact i can't remember a project i've worked on for some years now where MK wasn't the preferred final circuit wall accessory manufacturer!! So, unless they have carried out a design change in the last 4 years, what i have stated stands!! ..It was once 12mm, and even then the terminal screws stood proud of the screw guards when the terminals were full!!

Commonsense should tell you, that filling anywhere near the terminal capacity will leave exposed terminal screw length.