socket on lighting circuit?

[neil_ev]

hi all,

have been asked to install a double socket in an attic space. was wondering if i installed it with a 5A fcu would this comply with the regs? seems a bit of a grey area.

thanks

 

[Paul.M]

thats fair enough.but dont say you cant do it,just say you wouldn,t.its a big differance

Fair point Nick and I think this is what it boils down to, if you would or would not do it. Is it against the regs? No if precautions are made for protection as said before. (I'll eat my words on that one). At no point has the postee said what the use of this db socket is for, only the assumptions of members on the line of train sets and tv amp. This would have been my first question to the customer so I can design an adequate system for its intended use. If the customer says its for a tv amp and then sets fire to his house be plunging in whatever he wants in it fine, make sure you make a note on the minor works cert to cover your back because a few regs will be thrown at you:- 311.1, 314.1, 314.2, and that's just on the design stage. This is so open for abuse by the customer and it will be the sparky that gets it in the neck if it goes wrong. I think you know what I would do with regards to this, fcu it, label it, note on cert signed by customer for its intended use and job done safely and correct.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Fair point Nick and I think this is what it boils down to, if you would or would not do it. Is it against the regs? No if precautions are made for protection as said before. (I'll eat my words on that one). At no point has the postee said what the use of this db socket is for, only the assumptions of members on the line of train sets and tv amp. This would have been my first question to the customer so I can design an adequate system for its intended use. If the customer says its for a tv amp and then sets fire to his house be plunging in whatever he wants in it fine, make sure you make a note on the minor works cert to cover your back because a few regs will be thrown at you:- 311.1, 314.1, 314.2, and that's just on the design stage. This is so open for abuse by the customer and it will be the sparky that gets it in the neck if it goes wrong. I think you know what I would do with regards to this, fcu it, label it, note on cert signed by customer for its intended use and job done safely and correct.

You could also throw in reg 132. Your MEIWC will have all the deatils of the installation and it would be a BS 1363 socket outlet on whatever size protection device for that lighting circuit. I would be more concerned with, if the installation was pre 17th then you will have to RCD your circuit becasue it's a socket, the lighting circuit is feeding a batroom or the cables are buried. This would make that socket a little more complex.

 

[Paul.M]

Yep 132.1 (ii) the proper functioning of the electrical installation for the intended use. (until the customer changes the fcu for a DIY socket).

 

[Adam W]

Although we don't know what the customer is intending to use these sockets for primarily, I would always assume that at some point it'll be used for a vacuum cleaner when the customer decides to have a cleanup - it's all good and well telling them they shouldn't, putting a label on the socket etc, but when the need arises to plug in a vacuum cleaner 'health & safety' goes out of the window and the need for convenience prevails; vacuum cleaner gets plugged in, 5A fuse blows, "oh well no wonder it's blown it's only 5A", gets replaced with a 13A and the breaker operates, taking out all the lights with it, then as far as they can see there's a "fault" with the socket you've put in.
You'd either get a callout to go back and do it 'properly' or the customer would call a different sparky telling them "every time I switch the vacuum cleaner on the lights go out". Sparky B arrives, after a bit of testing finds you've put the socket on the lighting circuit and refers to you as a 'cowboy'.

Added to that you can tell this particular resident not to overload the socket, but consider how long they are likely to be living there for, what the next residents will be using the socket for, whether or not the information will be passed on, etc.
If there's an alternative 'convenient' place to plug in the vacuum cleaner, why not spur off that instead?

 

[the pict]

I agree fitting a 13A socket to a lighting circuit is to most of us counter intuative and a 5 A socket is the way to go,but again who's to say Joe customer won't change it, get it on the install form and a note in the comments box staing the intended use and design purpose, when I started I&T I bemoaned the fact I could not find a 13A to 5A and 2A adaptor for checking lighting 5A circuits in hotels, Then I though Jeez what would happen if the public could get a hold of these so I made my own
Pict