Sockets keep tripping

[clueless456]

Hi,

I moved home a few months ago and the electrics RCD keep tripping. Sometimes it will happen every few days and sometimes will be fine for a few weeks before happening again.

I have identified the problem is coming from the utility room sockets. When it has happened before I have unplugged everything in the utility room and then the RCD switch will remain in the on position and seem to be able to plug everything back in again without any problem, although sometimes I have had to wait a few hours before the RCD switch will turn on again.

The only items used in that room are fridge freezer, washing machine, tumble dryer, and a double socket I use for kettle and sometimes toaster, but these are switched off at the plug when not in use. The washing machine and dryer both have separate fuse switches, although these also seem to be connected to the problem circuit.

I do not think overloading the sockets is a problem. I did previously have an extension lead plugged into the double socket to charge mobile phones and laptop, but have now moved those to other side of property on different sockets.

The last time this happened was in the middle of the night last night and all lights also went off. I have unplugged everything in utility and the RCD switch now remains on, but when I try to turn the sockets breaker back on it just keeps tripping everything, so sockets breaker is still off, so cannot use fridge freezer or washing machine.

Is there anything else I could try without having to call electrician out? Do these things sometimes rectify if left alone for a few hours? I cannot see anything else on that circuit to be unplugged.

Many Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[clueless456]

Have a look at this:

https://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/

Thank you for the link, I wasnt aware of that and will make me think twice about them. What about any water damage to a socket? Would it be more dangerous with water damage to have a socket with plug protector plugged in, or without?

Thank you for the link, I wasnt aware of that and will make me think twice about them. What about any water damage to a socket? Would it be more dangerous with water damage to have a socket with plug protector plugged in, or without?

I did have a bad shock from one of the double kitchen sockets a few months ago - The sockets were switched off with nothing plugged in and I was cleaning the kitchen, and wiped over the plug socket with a slightly damp cloth and accidently switched one of the sockets on as I cleaned it, and got a bad shock.... That's one of the reasons I got the plastic plug in protectors for any sockets not in use.

 

[clueless456]

Hi,

Just wanted to give an update. Finally all working again! Although is a little too late to save the freezer food unfortunately.

I removed all of the plastic plug socket protectors and one of them was slightly wet behind. I then plugged them all back in again and the problem has now solved with all breakers now remaining on.

Please could you confirm if having plastic plug protectors plugged in, even when the plugs are switched off at the socket, does that create any kind of power surge through the socket in the same way an electrical item would (even when switched off)? Eg, can the plastic plug protectors create any kind of circuit overload at all?

I only got the plastic protectors due to previously getting a nasty shock when wiping an unused socket with a slightly damp cloth (I accidentally switched the switch on as I wiped it).

The plastic plug protectors were the very last thing I expected the problem to be. I am still a bit unsure about how that could have tripped the circuit with one of them being slightly wet, as the sockets are always switched off at the plug?

If the same socket (switched off) had a drop of water on it, without any plastic plug protector, would that still have tripped the power the same way?

The plastic plug protectors are flush against the sockets, so I cannot see how any water got behind that?

Thank you for your help in solving the problem.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Water and electricity do not mix, any moisture inside a socket outlet spells big trouble with short circuits and or earth faults, if you must clean the sockets protectors ensure they are completely dry before you put them back in and switch them back on, you have been lucky to have not given yourself a shock or even worse.

 

[clueless456]

Water and electricity do not mix, any moisture inside a socket outlet spells big trouble with short circuits and or earth faults, if you must clean the sockets protectors ensure they are completely dry before you put them back in and switch them back on, you have been lucky to have not given yourself a shock or even worse.

Just to clarify, the RCD protector breaker to those circuits was tripped when I removed the plastic plug protectors to check them (plus I also had rubber gloves on), and yes the one that was very slightly wet behind was fully dried before plugging it back in. I then tried to reset the RCD protector breaker to those circuits and it finally worked!

The bad shock I had a few months ago was before I had any plastic plug protectors. That socket was in the kitchen and had nothing at all plugged into it at the time.

 

[nicebutdim]

Water and electricity are indeed a poor combination, but I'm concerned about you receiving a shock from wiping sockets with a 'slightly' damp cloth and also the presence of moisture behind one of those protectors.

At this time it would appear as though the RCD is doing what it should, but in the general run of things you shouldn't have received a shock and no moisture ought to penetrate inside a socket if wiped with a slightly damp cloth.

Either we have very different opinions on the definition of 'slightly damp' or that moisture got there through other means. I can only opine on the basis of information provided, but something doesn't add up.

 

[clueless456]

Just to clarify, the RCD protector breaker to those circuits was tripped when I removed the plastic plug protectors to check them (plus I also had rubber gloves on), and yes the one that was very slightly wet behind was fully dried before plugging it back in. I then tried to reset the RCD protector breaker to those circuits and it finally worked!

The bad shock I had a few months ago was before I had any plastic plug protectors. That socket was in the kitchen and had nothing at all plugged into it at the time.

Water and electricity are indeed a poor combination, but I'm concerned about you receiving a shock from wiping sockets with a 'slightly' damp cloth and also the presence of moisture behind one of those protectors.

At this time it would appear as though the RCD is doing what it should, but in the general run of things you shouldn't have received a shock and no moisture ought to penetrate inside a socket if wiped with a slightly damp cloth.

Either we have very different opinions on the definition of 'slightly damp' or that moisture got there through other means. I can only opine on the basis of information provided, but something doesn't add up.

That's what I thought. I was shocked too at getting a shock! So much so that I wouldn't even plug anything in or switch any socket in the house on for a few weeks afterwards without wearing rubber gloves and rubber shoes.

It was a wet wipe, but wasn't very wet at all. The switches on that socket are very sensitive to switch on - I wiped across the socket fairly lightly and accidently switched it on as I done so, which gave me the shock. Nothing was plugged into the socket at the time.

 

[nicebutdim]

That's what I thought. I was shocked too at getting a shock! So much so that I wouldn't even plug anything in or switch any socket in the house on for a few weeks afterwards without wearing rubber gloves and rubber shoes.

It was a wet wipe, but wasn't very wet at all. The switches on that socket are very sensitive to switch on - I wiped across the socket fairly lightly and accidently switched it on as I done so, which gave me the shock. Nothing was plugged into the socket at the time.

I wouldn't expect moisture from a wet wipe to track behind a socket protector and cause tripping. While anything is possible, I'd be inclined to have this socket checked by an electrician and some basic testing carried out. If everything checks out and this incident does appear to have been caused by a wet wipe, I'd advise spending an extra couple of pounds and have the socket replaced as a precautionary measure.

 

[clueless456]

I wouldn't expect moisture from a wet wipe to track behind a socket protector and cause tripping. While anything is possible, I'd be inclined to have this socket checked by an electrician and some basic testing carried out. If everything checks out and this incident does appear to have been caused by a wet wipe, I'd advise spending an extra couple of pounds and have the socket replaced as a precautionary measure.

No the wet wipe incident was before I purchased the plastic plug protectors - That socket which gave me the shock had nothing at all plugged into it.

The socket which had a bit of moisture behind the plastic plug protector was a different socket in a different room and I do not know how there was moisture there.

Yes I will get somebody out to have a look.

 

[clueless456]

Apologies if they are silly questions, but could anyone please answer my questions in post 32.

Since having that bad shock, I do still feel safer using the plastic plug protectors for any sockets not in use. I am just a bit confused - Does a plastic socket protector make the plug live? Even when switched off?

I have just been reading more about them and from what I can understand, if nothing at all is plugged into a socket, there is supposed to be a safety shutter to prevent shocks? Should a socket safety shutter protect from shock even if the switch is turned on? I am just surprised I got a shock at all if plug sockets are supposed to be safe, which is why I purchased the plastic plugs.

I just found this socket protector and wondered if anyone had ever used these and if they are any good? As that might stop any future problem of any moisture tracking behind a plastic plug protector?

Clippasafe Double Socket Protector Electric Plug Cover Baby Child Safety Box UK | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Clippasafe Double Socket Protector Electric Plug Cover Baby Child Safety Box UK at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

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[nicebutdim]

Safety shutters will deter all but the most determined of young curious minds and their potential issues far outweigh any benefits. The link provided in post #28 covers the main reasons why they are frowned upon.

All things being even you should not receive a shock when using them, but where you found moisture behind one it may increase the risk of shock by providing a moist path between conductors. The main reaon for their use is the belief they'll keep young children safe from electric shock, but I'd contend the potential risks they create are far greater than the risk of shock from an undamaged, safety shuttered socket.

My previous advice has been provided out of an abundance of caution, but I have concerns about your prior wet wipe experience and the presence of moisture in another socket. I'd prefer you had to spend a few hard earned pounds getting to the bottom of this, and having the issue properly resolved, while ensuring all protective devices operate as intended. What I don't want to do is read a local newspaper link about someone electrocuted through a combination of unusual fault and a failed RCD.

I understand the frustration of not having reliably working outlets, but my concerns extend beyond resolving the obvious issue to ensuring any potential failure in the future is a safe failure.

 

[clueless456]

Safety shutters will deter all but the most determined of young curious minds and their potential issues far outweigh any benefits. The link provided in post #28 covers the main reasons why they are frowned upon.

All things being even you should not receive a shock when using them, but where you found moisture behind one it may increase the risk of shock by providing a moist path between conductors. The main reaon for their use is the belief they'll keep young children safe from electric shock, but I'd contend the potential risks they create are far greater than the risk of shock from an undamaged, safety shuttered socket.

My previous advice has been provided out of an abundance of caution, but I have concerns about your prior wet wipe experience and the presence of moisture in another socket. I'd prefer you had to spend a few hard earned pounds getting to the bottom of this, and having the issue properly resolved, while ensuring all protective devices operate as intended. What I don't want to do is read a local newspaper link about someone electrocuted through a combination of unusual fault and a failed RCD.

I understand the frustration of not having reliably working outlets, but my concerns extend beyond resolving the obvious issue to ensuring any potential failure in the future is a safe failure.

Thank you.

Could you just confirm, when an electrical item such as a toaster or fridge is plugged in, by inserting the plug, that opens up the safety shutters to enable the device to work?

But with nothing at all plugged into a socket, there are safety shutters? The socket that gave me the shock, although I accidently switched the switch on as I wiped it, there was nothing plugged into it at all, so should the safety shutters have prevented any chance of a shock anyway?

 

[nicebutdim]

Thank you.

Could you just confirm, when an electrical item such as a toaster or fridge is plugged in, by inserting the plug, that opens up the safety shutters to enable the device to work?

But with nothing at all plugged into a socket, there are safety shutters? The socket that gave me the shock, although I accidently switched the switch on as I wiped it, there was nothing plugged into it at all, so should the safety shutters have prevented any chance of a shock anyway?

The earth pin of your plug opens the safety shutters. When nothing is plugged into a socket it is not possible to push past the line and neutral shutters, although I wouldn't advise testing this on a live outlet will break under sufficient pressure.

The logic behind socket covers is sound, but the reality is that some have been proven to cause damage to safety shutters and other components within sockets and kids can easily remove them and even use them to defeat safety shutters. Nothing is foolproof, but safety shutters have proven themselves to be very effective over many decades.

Safety shutters are intended to stop items being poked into live terminals, but they (nor any other safety device) won't prevent the sort of situation you experienced. Electricity will not leak from terminals if safety shutters are open, but water does leak and moisture tracking between terminals could provide a current path from which you may receive a shock.

There are all sorts of possibilities why you received a shock, but without being on site it is impossible to provide empirical answers to the questions raised about your experiences and sufficient information has been provided to suggest thorough investigation is required. Hopefully this turns out to be a straighforward issue and one which can be easily resolved.

 

[clueless456]

The earth pin of your plug opens the safety shutters. When nothing is plugged into a socket it is not possible to push past the line and neutral shutters, although I wouldn't advise testing this on a live outlet will break under sufficient pressure.

The logic behind socket covers is sound, but the reality is that some have been proven to cause damage to safety shutters and other components within sockets and kids can easily remove them and even use them to defeat safety shutters. Nothing is foolproof, but safety shutters have proven themselves to be very effective over many decades.

Safety shutters are intended to stop items being poked into live terminals, but they (nor any other safety device) won't prevent the sort of situation you experienced. Electricity will not leak from terminals if safety shutters are open, but water does leak and moisture tracking between terminals could provide a current path from which you may receive a shock.

There are all sorts of possibilities why you received a shock, but without being on site it is impossible to provide empirical answers to the questions raised about your experiences and sufficient information has been provided to suggest thorough investigation is required. Hopefully this turns out to be a straighforward issue and one which can be easily resolved.

Thank you.

I can only assume that if I hadn't accidentally switched the switch on as I touched the socket, then I wouldn't have received a shock, but wont be going anywhere near any socket ever again with a wet wipe (even a fairly dry one) without switching the circuit breakers off first.

The strange thing was that (and this is going to sound really crazy, but i'm honestly not) before I had even touched the socket (I was probably a few feet away from socket) I suddenly had a very strange sharp pain in the tip of my thumb underneath the nail, that felt like a bee sting, or a needle going into my thumb. Then a few seconds later I touched the socket and the shock went straight through my thumb in the exact same place.

Almost like some kind of premonition. Very strange - I think the "premonition" shocked me more than the electric shock itself.

Thank you for all of the replies and help. It's so nice to have the fridge working again.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Just a thought, have you closely inspected the socket you got the shock off for any cracking of the surface, moisture from the wet wipe could track through a crack in the surface and give you the shock you experienced, but I would ask, how bad was the shock? was it just a tingle or a shock that made you step backwards and have to sit down?

 

[clueless456]

Thank you.

I can only assume that if I hadn't accidentally switched the switch on as I touched the socket, then I wouldn't have received a shock, but wont be going anywhere near any socket ever again with a wet wipe (even a fairly dry one) without switching the circuit breakers off first.

The strange thing was that (and this is going to sound really crazy, but i'm honestly not) before I had even touched the socket (I was probably a few feet away from socket) I suddenly had a very strange sharp pain in the tip of my thumb underneath the nail, that felt like a bee sting, or a needle going into my thumb. Then a few seconds later I touched the socket and the shock went straight through my thumb in the exact same place.

Almost like some kind of premonition. Very strange - I think the "premonition" shocked me more than the electric shock itself.

Thank you for all of the replies and help. It's so nice to have the fridge working again.