some random questions about testing...

[malcolmsanford]

agreed i may be wrong but i think, i cant find the paperwork, the niceic say its 2 points of utilazation ,spelling, on a circuit.

Would this be the same NICEIC that tells us an Installation Earth Electrode should not exceed 100ohms and the BRB states 200ohms

Could it also be the same NICEIC that tells us that "LIVE" testing should not be done and that Zs testing is preferably done by calculation.

It could even be the same NICEIC that says that to conform to regulation 522.8.1 when installing T+E into a flush mounted back box you have to use a grommit, and told people that the lack of them contravenes this regulation.

Most likley it's the same NICEIC that are pushing what IMO are totally worthless pieces of paper called something like "Condition Reports" to customer who believe that these reports are actually worth anything.

Not 2 worried what they think to be honest, I will be guided by the actual Regulations, not a schemes take on them.

 

[tonys]

When I sat my 2391 in 2000, I was taught by the head of technical at my local college. I asked the question, how many points is a double socket classed as, the answer was one point of utillization.

On the subject of ferrous enclosure being used as a protective conductor, the inspection and testing is a bit more involved than just using an ohm meter. Does an ohm meter prove the joints are capable of carrying a fault current? Should you inspect the enclosure along its length to verify its integrity?

At the end of the day, courses like the 2391 are there for a reason, more people need to sit and pass them.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Yes, 1 point per twin socket and inspect cpc containment along it's length in the absence of the high current continuity test (sometimes entertaining visual effects!).

 

[ian.settle1]

When I sat my 2391 in 2000, I was taught by the head of technical at my local college. I asked the question, how many points is a double socket classed as, the answer was one point of utillization.

On the subject of ferrous enclosure being used as a protective conductor, the inspection and testing is a bit more involved than just using an ohm meter. Does an ohm meter prove the joints are capable of carrying a fault current? Should you inspect the enclosure along its length to verify its integrity?

At the end of the day, courses like the 2391 are there for a reason, more people need to sit and pass them.

Problem is though that people who do not have the training or experiance are taking the course and failing the exam because they haven't a clue what they are doing which is shown by the constant low pass rate.

It may be contraversal but I think that is why there should be a structured system when taking courses and exams which should be enforced by all college and training centres, in that unless you have a prerequist or lower qualification you should not be able to take the next higher qualification without the lower one.

This is like when you do a degree (not counting mickey mouse ones or an OU degree) you can not normally get on one unless you have A levels or a HNC/HND

 

[IQ Electrical]

I take your point Ian but the problem is different people have a different aptitude to learning-do you force a quick learner to do a 2392 course before allowing him/her to take 2391-10/20 ?

It's all a bit namby pamby to me, there's enough information available from endless sources on the 'difficulty' of 2391-10 etc. If people are just booking onto courses without finding out how demanding the topic is then more fool them!

My training centre would make no such entry requirements other than 'payment at the little window please' .

 

[ian.settle1]

I take your point Ian but the problem is different people have a different aptitude to learning-do you force a quick learner to do a 2392 course before allowing him/her to take 2391-10/20 ?

It's all a bit namby pamby to me, there's enough information available from endless sources on the 'difficulty' of 2391-10 etc. If people are just booking onto courses without finding out how demanding the topic is then more fool them!

My training centre would make no such entry requirements other than 'payment at the little window please' .

Know what you mean but with some of the questions which are asked on here would not be being asked if a proper training/exam scheme was in place but with most training centres have a certain ABBA song for their signature tune "Money, Money, Money"

 

[tonys]

most training centres have a certain ABBA song for their signature tune "Money, Money, Money"

No, that's all Training Centres Ian.

Get rid of them all and build more colleges, that's where your taught by proper tutors who have an head of Technical Department.

 

[ian.settle1]

No, that's all Training Centres Ian.

Get rid of them all and build more colleges, that's where your taught by proper tutors who have an head of Technical Department.

If the old style apprenticeships had not been got rid off then most off these training centres would not have started up.

 

[Smugley]

You can put down anything you want for number of points. Got nothing to do with BS7671 which is what we work to. I reckon the reason for including it on the NICEIC certs is as an aide to the next spark who comes along to test, so when inspecting a circuit he knows that he has covered every point that was originally installed. Therefore I'd say any socket whether single double or triple is a single point of utilisation.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The 2391 was introduced for experianced testers to prove their competence.
Not to teach inexperianced electricians.
By rights, it should not be neccessary for there to be any course associated with the exam.

 

[ricardo123]

My understanding is that a twin is classed as 1 point.

 

[Thomas123]

aaron your going places

Do you mean that in a good way or a bad way? haha