Spark gone missing after EICR and no report

[Michaelwgroves]

I've been called by a client to fix a problem exposed by EICR.
Spark put new light and fan in shower, also moved shower switch above bathroom door. Customer wanted EICR, but spark got his mate to do as he can't do EICR. So I'm suspicious he's not part of CPS, below might make you think the same.
Anyway, second spark come round and did stuff, I'm not sure what. 1st Spark never forwarded EICR and just mentioned a short on ring. After a few months customer got fed up chasing and called me.
While I was there I had a quick look, I can see 118 ohms across live and neutral. Turns out boiler is run off kitchen ring in fused spur and this was reason for reading. After post on plumbers forum apparently this is normal.

Anyway, while I was there I observed a shower switch above ground floor bathroom door. I also observed a shower pull switch in the 1st Floor bathroom. So nothing suspicious there...……..
Customer asked if I could remove pull switch in 1st Floor as not used. Stuck my head in and has electric shower. Sorry no I says, you need this it must be in use. No says customer switch for 1st Floor bathroom is above Ground Floor bathroom. Turns out Ground Floor shower is mains fed, no electric.
Seems mad as this is a new switch down stairs. I've suggested I move switch back upstairs which is very quick job. Customer agrees.
However, whilst this seems like a crazy place to put a shower switch, in reality it's not unsafe. But I assume there is a reg that says switch must be in close proximity to shower?

This is as much I want to get it off my chest as a question.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

[QUOTE="Michaelwgroves, post: 1454180, member: 68265"

But I assume there is a reg that says switch must be in close proximity to shower?

Don't assume, find out. There is no such reg.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

There’s no Regs stating showers or other household appliances should have local isolation.
However where local isolation is desired, it’s not much use if it’s not local.

 

[bigspark17]

MIs are guidance only, and don't have to be followed, especially when they are wrong.

So you think MI are wrong stating there should be a local douple pole isolator? Do you not fit isolators adjacent to showers, cookers, heaters boilers ect..
The regs are a minimum guidance, nothing stopping you going a step further to better the install.
Madness not to have one imo.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

So you think MI are wrong stating there should be a local douple pole isolator? Do you not fit isolators adjacent to showers, cookers, heaters boilers ect..
The regs are a minimum guidance, nothing stopping you going a step further to better the install.
Madness not to have one imo.

It’s not so much that they are wrong (though sometimes they clearly are), as whether non-compliance with an MI is a non-compliance with the Regs. or is dangerous.

 

[Michaelwgroves]

Have you carried out many eicrs? Why would you test L-L on a ring final? L&N -earth (with cpc connected to earth bar) is only required IR test imo on eicr.
No isolator atall on shower is a c2 for me its cowboyish, provides no local isolation & doesnt comply with MI.

C2 ????????????????????

And you ask if I have done many EICRs?

 

[Octopus]

MIs are guidance only, and don't have to be followed, especially when they are wrong.

So you will add a fixed appliance, on a dual RCD board with no DP isolation ..... So when the RCD starts tripping how are you going to isolate the fixed device so you can rule out in or out as the cause of the tripping?

You can't so I have too disagree with you

 

[Michaelwgroves]

Sorry to be blunt but EICR's require a considerable level of experience and knowledge, you do not seem to me to have the required knowledge to be advising the client on such matters. Seems to be a case of the blind leading the blind.

It's a simple question, I can't find a reg.
If you are so clever why not just say it's reg nnn.n.n or no such reg ?

"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." Plato

 

[GeorgeCooke]

So you think MI are wrong stating there should be a local douple pole isolator?

If it is implied that it is a reg then yes they are wrong. If it is said they advise it though not required by the regs that is another matter.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Think this thread is deteriorating to less than useful.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

So you will add a fixed appliance, on a dual RCD board with no DP isolation ..... So when the RCD starts tripping how are you going to isolate the fixed device so you can rule out in or out as the cause of the tripping?

You can't so I have too disagree with you

That argument applies to every light fitting throughout the house. Are you implying all light switches should be double pole?

 

[Michaelwgroves]

Back to the matter in hand, I can't find anything in BYB or OSG.
But Electrician's Guide to The Building Regulations advises;
4.5 "Instantaneous water heaters (including showers) of rating exceeding 3 kW should be supplied by a separate circuit. Local isolation of water and electricity should be provided to facilitate maintenance"
So should I conclude no reg; Therefore, common sense should prevail?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Not sure how many FCUs are not double pole?
The ones I use are, so it’s not a problem for me.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

So should I conclude no reg; Therefore, common sense should prevail?

Yes.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Back to the matter in hand, I can't find anything in BYB or OSG.
But Electrician's Guide to The Building Regulations advises;
4.5 "Instantaneous water heaters (including showers) of rating exceeding 3 kW should be supplied by a separate circuit. Local isolation of water and electricity should be provided to facilitate maintenance"
So should I conclude no reg; Therefore, common sense should prevail?

You are not going to find a Regulation requiring local DP or even SP isolation in domestic installations.
There may be some in regards to rotating machinery in workshops and factories, but I can’t be asked to look.

 

[Octopus]

That argument applies to every light fitting throughout the house. Are you implying all light switches should be double pole?

I said fixed loads, not lights ....