SPD on old db in house with 5 boards all other circuits no protectiob

[JJONESY4]

Hi, I’m at a job on a grade 2 listed property with 5 different single phase distribution boards, the client wants sockets moved to new locations however the circuit I’m working on has a 32a rcbo but no SPD, all other circuits have to protection either. Any advice?

Thanks

 

[mainline]

Hi, I’m at a job on a grade 2 listed property with 5 different single phase distribution boards, the client wants sockets moved to new locations however the circuit I’m working on has a 32a rcbo but no SPD, all other circuits have to protection either. Any advice?

Thanks

Just move the sockets to wherever they need to go.

 

[JJONESY4]

Just move the sockets to wherever they need to go.

More so regarding certification…?

 

[pc1966]

If you want to be completely to the book you can advise them that adding SPD would be normal now, but they can chose to decline it. Of course, it would be worth checking first that they do not have any history of lightning-related damage.

 

[mainline]

More so regarding certification…?

You're making an alteration to an existing circuit, and I assume not in a special location.

 

[Vortigern]

I think check the regs. If I am reading you right I think you are getting at the need (?) for SPD which if it is domestic there is no particular part of the regs which insists on it. On the cert I would be inclined to note SPD was offered and the client has declined as you might. I presume you have discussed this with them?
Ah @pc1966 just pipped me there.

 

[JJONESY4]

If you want to be completely to the book you can advise them that adding SPD would be normal now, but they can chose to decline it. Of course, it would be worth checking first that they do not have any history of lightning-related damage.

Thanks for the reply, it was just that no other circuit on this specific db had any form of protection bar the mcb itself, seems over the top to have to replace a board and add an spd etc for the sake of moving a few sockets. Thanks
Ps the circuit I’m working on has a 32a rcbo

 

[JJONESY4]

I think check the regs. If I am reading you right I think you are getting at the need (?) for SPD which if it is domestic there is no particular part of the regs which insists on it. On the cert I would be inclined to note SPD was offered and the client has declined as you might. I presume you have discussed this with them?
Ah @pc1966 just pipped me there.

Thanks

You're making an alteration to an existing circuit, and I assume not in a special location.

yes but the circuit is the only one in the db on an rcbo and no spd so wasn’t sure the take on completing a minor works taking into account the state of the property’s old electrics

You're making an alteration to an existing circuit, and I assume not in a special location.

 

[pc1966]

Thanks for the reply, it was just that no other circuit on this specific db had any form of protection bar the mcb itself, seems over the top to have to replace a board and add an spd etc for the sake of moving a few sockets. Thanks

If there is a spare MCB slot you can add SPD in a small DIN box outside of an older DB if really needed.

For better protection you can route the sub-main through the DIN box to the SPD and then to the DB, assuming the type of SPD is good to the supply protection (e.g. 100A fuse). Many of the cheaper SPD need an MCB in the 32A or so region for protection, but not all. For example the Axiom single-unit from Toolstation, etc, is good to a 100A fuse and only £20!

Axiom Type 2 Surge Protection Device SP+N (SPD)

• Single pole and neutral• Single module• Does not require MCB protection• DIN-rail mountable• Type 2, single phase, double pole, suitable for TN-S, TN-C-S and TT earthing• Suitable for use in Axiom consumer units• Complies with IEC 61643-11• Dimensions: 18 x 81 x 71mm• 1 year warrantyOver...

www.toolstation.com

The line terminal will take (probably) 2 * 16mm but neutral won't, so it needs a box with a neutral bar if used in this manner.

Also an external SPD need not match the DB brand as it is not fitting in to the busbar design, etc.

Ps the circuit I’m working on has a 32a rcbo

RCD protection is far more important, so that is good to hear!

 

[JJONESY4]

If there is a spare MCB slot you can add SPD in a small DIN box outside of an older DB if really needed.

For better protection you can route the sub-main through the DIN box to the SPD and then to the DB, assuming the type of SPD is good to the supply protection (e.g. 100A fuse). Many of the cheaper SPD need an MCB in the 32A or so region for protection, but not all. For example the Axiom single-unit from Toolstation, etc, is good to a 100A fuse and only £20!

Axiom Type 2 Surge Protection Device SP+N (SPD)

• Single pole and neutral• Single module• Does not require MCB protection• DIN-rail mountable• Type 2, single phase, double pole, suitable for TN-S, TN-C-S and TT earthing• Suitable for use in Axiom consumer units• Complies with IEC 61643-11• Dimensions: 18 x 81 x 71mm• 1 year warrantyOver...

www.toolstation.com

The line terminal will take (probably) 2 * 16mm but neutral won't, so it needs a box with a neutral bar if used in this manner.

Also an external SPD need not match the DB brand as it is not fitting in to the busbar design, etc.

RCD protection is far more important, so that is good to hear!

Thanks again for the reply, I think the point I’m getting at is, does there have to be an spd when adding to the circuit or does the spd rule apply for just new circuits/ changing the db
Thanks

 

[JJONESY4]

If there is a spare MCB slot you can add SPD in a small DIN box outside of an older DB if really needed.

For better protection you can route the sub-main through the DIN box to the SPD and then to the DB, assuming the type of SPD is good to the supply protection (e.g. 100A fuse). Many of the cheaper SPD need an MCB in the 32A or so region for protection, but not all. For example the Axiom single-unit from Toolstation, etc, is good to a 100A fuse and only £20!

Axiom Type 2 Surge Protection Device SP+N (SPD)

• Single pole and neutral• Single module• Does not require MCB protection• DIN-rail mountable• Type 2, single phase, double pole, suitable for TN-S, TN-C-S and TT earthing• Suitable for use in Axiom consumer units• Complies with IEC 61643-11• Dimensions: 18 x 81 x 71mm• 1 year warrantyOver...

www.toolstation.com

The line terminal will take (probably) 2 * 16mm but neutral won't, so it needs a box with a neutral bar if used in this manner.

Also an external SPD need not match the DB brand as it is not fitting in to the busbar design, etc.

RCD protection is far more important, so that is good to hear!

Thanks again!, what’s your take on completing a minor works certificate in this scenario given the client states they don’t want an spd fitted due to excessive costs for the job. Also the old state of the rest of the properties electrics.
Thanks

 

[pc1966]

The requirement for SPD is covered by 443.4.1 and outside of the mandatory cases (i) to (iii) it has the allowed exception if the owner declares it is not required.

Of course that has to be informed consent, so if you offer it and they decide the extra cost is not justified of a reasonable basis such as no history of trouble, then you just keep a copy of their decision and note it on the certificate that the client declined SPD.

For a new install I would always fit SPD as extra cost is now very small compared to the total cost of, say, a CU change.