Spur off a 3036 protected circuit?

[alanl]

I've been asked to add a spur (or possibly extend the ring) on a BS 3036 protected circuit.
Dead basic job, just needs an extra socket in a bedroom.

From my understanding, this can be put down as a Minor Works, but all sockets now have to be RCD protected to comply with the 17th, so if I'm putting in a new socket, does this circuit have to be modified to have RCD protection?

If so, then would it be classed acceptable to move the existing socket 6 feet to the other side of the room, without adding RCD protection?

(the reason being, the customer will not pay for a CU upgrade)

On a similar point, the TN-C-S incomer has a 10mm cable from the MET to the Fusebox. Do I need to upgrade this to 16mm when adding the socket?

Thanks
Alan.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Technically yes you should be including RCD protection,however as you will not be leaving the install in a worse condition than it is now,the socket is not liable to supply equipment outdoors,and prior to 2008 you would not have needed to provide RCD protection......IMO you could just add the socket and note it as a departure based on the clients refusal to have the system upgraded.
If there are no signs of any problems with the 10mm you could also note that as a departure,but is there any main bonding?.....you cant ignore that.

 

[TPES]

Technically yes you should be including RCD protection,however as you will not be leaving the install in a worse condition than it is now,the socket is not liable to supply equipment outdoors,and prior to 2008 you would not have needed to provide RCD protection......IMO you could just add the socket and note it as a departure based on the clients refusal to have the system upgraded.
If there are no signs of any problems with the 10mm you could also note that as a departure,but is there any main bonding?.....you cant ignore that.

A bit confused by this..

RCD's are required but if the customer doesn't want to pay for it you would just note it on the cert and install it anyway

What if there is no bonding?? Why wouldn't you just note this on the cert and install anyway? Just as you did the RCD..

It's just the same

There both required and should be done regardless in my eyes..

 

[Bradzz]

But dont forget the customer wont pay, so would input under advice, and in a letter, then compolete the works, cover all areas, but you cant do work for free. even if it does not conform even if it is dangerous.
In my books if you dont pay you dont get the work done. just put it in as advised customer, get them to sign copy.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

A bit confused by this..

RCD's are required but if the customer doesn't want to pay for it you would just note it on the cert and install it anywayAn RCD would not have been required for this install prior to 2008,IMO an additional socket in a bedroom not on an RCD when none of the others in the property are on an RCD is not a major issue....Bs 7671 is not statutory,if a departure can be justified you are not obliged to comply

What if there is no bonding?? Why wouldn't you just note this on the cert and install anyway? Just as you did the RCD..

It's just the sameNo it isnt,main bonding is an essential safety requirement in the installation as described and always has been,RCD protection is not an essential safety requirement for the install as described

There both required and should be done regardless in my eyes..

............................

 

[Deleted member 9648]

But dont forget the customer wont pay, so would input under advice, and in a letter, then compolete the works, cover all areas, but you cant do work for free. even if it does not conform even if it is dangerous.
In my books if you dont pay you dont get the work done. just put it in as advised customer, get them to sign copy.

Lack of main bonding would be a safety issue.......lack of RCD for the install as described would not be,remember prior to 2008 this would not have required an RCD,are all installs before that date unsafe??
No installation should be left in a dangerous state,if it will be dont do the work.

 

[i=p/u]

just add rcd incorparated into socket thingy

 

[Deleted member 9648]

just add rcd incorparated into socket thingy

So one socket in a bedroom will have an RCD just to comply with the regs...but none of the others in the house will be RCD protected??.......an option yes,but it doesnt really make sense.
My understanding is that the new regs due out soon will be addressing this issue in order to prevent this sort of sillyness.

 

[londonlec]

RCD and enclosure beside CU?

 

[Octopus]

So one socket in a bedroom will have an RCD just to comply with the regs...but none of the others in the house will be RCD protected??.......an option yes,but it doesnt really make sense.
My understanding is that the new regs due out soon will be addressing this issue in order to prevent this sort of sillyness.

I agree, this is sillyness. Fitting a socket in an upstairs bedroom in a house where there are NO RCD's is simply madness. Lets hope the regs update clears this up because this sillyness is what allows pub electricians to thrive.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I agree, this is sillyness. Fitting a socket in an upstairs bedroom in a house where there are NO RCD's is simply madness. Lets hope the regs update clears this up because this sillyness is what allows pub electricians to thrive.

If I read you correctly you are stating that fitting a socket upstairs with no RCD is madness?......presumably then you would condemn all installations prior to 2008 as unsafe?

 

[Bradzz]

so you are saying you work for free, or are you saying leave well alone if they dont want to pay to bring install to regulation standards.

 

[pushrod]

If I read you correctly you are stating that fitting a socket upstairs with no RCD is madness?......presumably then you would condemn all installations prior to 2008 as unsafe?

I'm guessing ie there is a "not" missing from Murdoch's post - ie not fitting

 

[pushrod]

so you are saying you work for free, or are you saying leave well alone if they dont want to pay to bring install to regulation standards.

either put the cost of the main bonding into the quote and do it it even though not asked for, or leave the whole job alone would be my feeling.

 

[Bradzz]

I think it should be a standard set out buy the home owners insurance, if the dont have a current certificate, well within the allowed time of last ten years, then no insurance cover, same as MOT and TAX, i know you can purchase car insurance without this but you cant drive your car, as soon as you do insurance becomes invalid, all shops should have to be the same, this would take us all back to the 80s when money was flooding out of our pockets in the electrical trade. WAVE DREAM WAVE Sorry lads i was just dreaming a little, LOL.