Standards Manager? HSE

[Hants-Spark]

Not saying its right or wrong, but I've worked on MOD sites and the amount of paperwork you have to go through is ridiculous, saying that, unfortunately people have accidents (hopefully not to serious) and when that happens one of the first things that goes through there mind is compensation. The paper trail you are talking about then attempts to demonstrate that the company has looked at all foreseeable scenarios, trained you to use all tools/climb ladders etc etc etc and in their eyes shows a court of law/solicitor that they have taken actions to mitigate any accidents occurring and basically covers their arse from prosecution. You get used to it and as mentioned above you allow for it when pricing work, but I do agree it can get very frustrating. By the way I agree a generic RA is no good to man or beast.

 

[UNG]

unfortunately people have accidents (hopefully not to serious) and when that happens one of the first things that goes through there mind is compensation.

The first thing is who can I blame because I've done something an idiot would do

The paper trail you are talking about then attempts to demonstrate that the company has looked at all foreseeable scenarios, trained you to use all tools/climb ladders etc etc etc and in their eyes shows a court of law/solicitor that they have taken actions to mitigate any accidents occurring and basically covers their arse from prosecution.

Unfortunately there is no training course for common sense as if it was applied a lot of H&S problems would disappear. Since the blame / claim solicitors appeared there has been a move away from the early days of H&S where everyone was their own safety officer to a situation where the employer is left to carry the can for an employees stupidity

You get used to it and as mentioned above you allow for it when pricing work, but I do agree it can get very frustrating. By the way I agree a generic RA is no good to man or beast.

H&S is frustrating when you have someone on site who blocks some methods of working due to a lack of knowledge on their part. Most risk assessments have a generic element as no job is 100% different to the previous job in some cases it is easier to work with a generic RA and append a site specific to it

 

[Hants-Spark]

UNG I get the impression you think all accidents are caused by lack of common sense and stupidity, yes most probably are but as I said it doesn't stop people from trying to claim. I've known people to get compensation for cycling down a hole which has been cordoned off and blinking lights around it, what more could you do? But they got money, and several thousands at that. H&S may have gone mad but are people getting more and more stupid? Who knows lol. If this particular H&S is that bad then he will soon be discovered but in general it is there for a reason and that is to protect the people who are sometimes surrounded by idiots

 

[UNG]

UNG I get the impression you think all accidents are caused by lack of common sense and stupidity, yes most probably are but as I said it doesn't stop people from trying to claim. I've known people to get compensation for cycling down a hole which has been cordoned off and blinking lights around it, what more could you do? But they got money, and several thousands at that. H&S may have gone mad but are people getting more and more stupid? Who knows lol. If this particular H&S is that bad then he will soon be discovered but in general it is there for a reason and that is to protect the people who are sometimes surrounded by idiots

The fact that people will attempt something without knowledge, training or any research shows stupidity and a lack of common sense that there actions may result in an incident

Every risk assessment shows that common sense is not that common any more having to include the obvious things like wearing gloves and safety specs for some tasks is just one example

I also believe that there are professional idiots who look for claim opportunities and make a career out of it as it beats working

Health and Safety is a bit like the EU it has totally lost sight of it's original aims and has been taken over by myriad of rules, misinterpretations, misunderstandings and ignorant jobsworths , everybody should be their own safety officer it is unfortunate that idiots are never held to account for their actions or stupidity because they have learnt that some one else is always to blame for any incident that causes them injury or loss

When I was an employer I had a claim made against me because one of my employees snapped his achilles tendon doing something he was told not to I have first hand experience of being in the firing line and what the caused the incident would not have been covered in any RA I would also point out that the employee had an IOSH qualification so even those who should no better can cause a problem of their own making and try to blame some one else

 

[Hants-Spark]

The fact that people will attempt something without knowledge, training or any research shows stupidity and a lack of common sense that there actions may result in an incident
It may show a lack of common sense or even the character to say no but there have been many instances when the employee has carried out a job because his boss has asked even if he felt it unsafe on the pretext of not wanting to be seen as a negative.
Every risk assessment shows that common sense is not that common any more having to include the obvious things like wearing gloves and safety specs for some tasks is just one example
So have you never seen people drilling/grinding etc without goggles?
I also believe that there are professional idiots who look for claim opportunities and make a career out of it as it beats working
There have been incidents even in our local supermarket where people have deliberately got themselves injured by trollies etc and made a claim against them.
Health and Safety is a bit like the EU it has totally lost sight of it's original aims and has been taken over by myriad of rules, misinterpretations, misunderstandings and ignorant jobsworths , everybody should be their own safety officer it is unfortunate that idiots are never held to account for their actions or stupidity because they have learnt that some one else is always to blame for any incident that causes them injury or loss
I agree but again it is there to protect the individual as well as the employee, unfortunately people take and advantage and try there luck.
When I was an employer I had a claim made against me because one of my employees snapped his achilles tendon doing something he was told not to I have first hand experience of being in the firing line and what the caused the incident would not have been covered in any RA I would also point out that the employee had an IOSH qualification so even those who should no better can cause a problem of their own making and try to blame some one else

Point proven. I don't disagree with most of what you say but to say that accidents only happen through stupidity is a bit unjustified, we are all human and accidents do happen for whatever reason, RA/Method Statements etc etc are there to make people aware of the hazards and hopefully prevent them from happening, its not a guarantee.

 

[Silly Sausage]

All this HSE 'stuff' is a result of this litigationousness (made that up!) culture we're now living in.
(Another shyte American import)
Every Tom, Dock & Harry now think if they sprain their little finger, Oooh must sue someone.
So, I'm not really surprised employers might be covering themselves.
I think it all stinks myself, I like to think I can take care of myself, don't need some suited twunt to tell me owt!



That bike story, I'd make him do it again then fill the hole.

 

[Hants-Spark]

All this HSE 'stuff' is a result of this litigationousness (made that up!) culture we're now living in.
(Another shyte American import)
Every Tom, Dock & Harry now think if they sprain their little finger, Oooh must sue someone.
So, I'm not really surprised employers might be covering themselves.
I think it all stinks myself, I like to think I can take care of myself, don't need some suited twunt to tell me owt!



That bike story, I'd make him do it again then fill the hole.

That's what I'm trying to say, each and everyone of us has a duty to ensure ourselves and everyone around us is safe and not placed in danger through our actions, because of the culture we are now in everyone wants/see's injuries as an easy source of income and therefore companies do what they can to cover themselves. The bike story - All true, you couldn't make it up what this bloke gets up to.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Here Hant,

Exactly! It's symptomatic of this airy fairy nanny stateism (Thanks Bliar, mustn't eat beef on the bone, lets invade Iraq), having personal responsiblity has gone out of the window.

Are there any short course how to become a lawyer available, screw electrical work, no win no fee is where the moneys at!!!!

 

[Hants-Spark]

Here Hant,

Exactly! It's symptomatic of this airy fairy nanny stateism (Thanks Bliar, mustn't eat beef on the bone, lets invade Iraq), having personal responsiblity has gone out of the window.

Are there any short course how to become a lawyer available, screw electrical work, no win no fee is where the moneys at!!!!

Yep, buy yourself a fast car and chase all those ambulances around lol. There has got to be something in it, you hear/see more no win no fee adverts that anything else nowadays. God help us

 

[SirusDvirus]

Have to agree with the aspect of litigationousness (I like that word) as we do have a few 'sicknotes' in this factory who are all to eager to accidentally fall off the mezz floor as they never saw the barrier or just plainly are blind to the bloody great big sign that says DANGER!!..must be a genetic flaw :S

 

[Engineer54]

Think i've told you before, that you will never see hide nor hare of a British HSE officer on any project or construction site outside of the UK or possibly Europe!! ....Overseas contractors (and that includes overseas British contractors) and clients want to see Projects to actually get completed and within budget!! lol!!

The posts on this thread, only reinforce why you will never see them!! lol!!

 

[Hants-Spark]

I think the pictures on the H&S training thread demonstrate Europe's and Asia's idea on good H&S, I am of the opinion that the HSE are there for a reason, and that isn't to create hurdles and blockades but to protect the employees/ers, not all of it is enforced correctly but can see the logic to some of the reasoning.

 

[Engineer54]

The difference between ''Good'' H&S officers from the likes of Aussie, Canada, NZ, and even the Sates that you now find on the bigger projects in Asia and the British bloody idiots that you seem to respect for some reason, is like chalk an cheese!!

Commonsense always prevails over total stupidity!! Something like you, trying to use a humorous photo's thread, to depict typical H&S actualities!!

 

[Hants-Spark]

I didn't say I respected our H&S officers, what I said was I appreciate what they are there for and do not have a total disregard for it like some people who have commented. I know that they can make life very difficult with their jobs worth approach but that doesn't make what they are trying to achieve any different. Common sense certainly does help with regards to H&S and goes a long way to prevent accidents but as said before, accidents do happen, the point I was making was that they are there to raise awareness and try to instil the safe approach mentality, just remember workers on site aren't always tradesmen/engineers and therefore the common sense isn't always there to start with. As for the pictures, these are factual, and a statement of stupidity to the lengths people will go to get the job done, not trying to depict typical H&S as a whole.

 

[Engineer54]

I didn't say I respected our H&S officers, what I said was I appreciate what they are there for and do not have a total disregard for it like some people who have commented. I know that they can make life very difficult with their jobs worth approach but that doesn't make what they are trying to achieve any different. Common sense certainly does help with regards to H&S and goes a long way to prevent accidents but as said before, accidents do happen, the point I was making was that they are there to raise awareness and try to instil the safe approach mentality, just remember workers on site aren't always tradesmen/engineers and therefore the common sense isn't always there to start with. As for the pictures, these are factual, and a statement of stupidity to the lengths people will go to get the job done, not trying to depict typical H&S as a whole.

Well when these British H&S officers start living in the real world and applying a commonsense approach to they're profession, then they will get respect. Unfortunately they use the power invested in them, to build little dictatorship empires on virtually every project in th UK, creating work where none is needed or wanted. They seem to be most happy, when causing delays to work elements and/or costing the contactors unnecessary money...They actually think this is a good indication, that they are doing a good job FFS!!

No-one denies that H&S is an important factor on any project, but in the UK, you have let these safety officers literary take over projects (well almost), and why it's almost impossible to to bring projects home, anywhere near on time and virtually never within budget!!

And that's not even mentioning anything about our manufacturing industry. Where these jumped up Hitler's types also have a toe hold and probably why in no small way, that UK find it difficult to be able to compete with other European exporting countries!!