star delta motor .....extra stop/start....415v abb

[Darkwood]

I wouldn't rely on the Niceic as there are only viewing any works that come under the 17th and as you work outside of the scope of these regs they wont stand in any doc with you, ive taken them on a panel build in the past and he didn't know his rectum from his elbow ... his just checked the isolator to machine and supply was correct .....quietest ive seen him in ages they are usually full of questions.

 

[Darkwood]

I didn’t get myself out! 5 f***in hours waiting for rescue.

Is this 300HP Ellison unit an OCB or DMO unit? Because if it is you will find yourself in the mire if anything goes wrong.
Have a look for the HSE directive on DMO switches. Makes interesting reading.

Enjoy you’re holiday.

I think you were set up Tony ..... although I cant understand why? I mean your shy and reserved; its not like you to say what you think

 

[chilliwilly]

Hello my learnrf friend, hope you have had a good day? Where will I find that standard that you referred to in your other post?

The niccy inspector that used to inspect my work is ex industrial and beleive you me he knows his stuff, but no mention of any other standard relating to limitrd use of voltage ranges used only for control circuits. Then Tony Harrison took over from him, and he seemed to knpw his stuff as well.

I am in the process of re applying for membership with the niccy, and will be intersting if they snag 400v + control voltage?

 

[chilliwilly]

I didn’t get myself out! 5 f***in hours waiting for rescue.

Is this 300HP Ellison unit an OCB or DMO unit? Because if it is you will find yourself in the mire if anything goes wrong.
Have a look for the HSE directive on DMO switches. Makes interesting reading.

Enjoy you’re holiday.

I don't know as the decal/badge was missing, but its still painted orange and in very good condition if that helps?

If I get away anytime, I will send you a post card with wish you was here and all that, but you will have let me know whete to send it?

Thanks for coming.

 

[Darkwood]

Hello my learnrf friend, hope you have had a good day? Where will I find that standard that you referred to in your other post?

The niccy inspector that used to inspect my work is ex industrial and beleive you me he knows his stuff, but no mention of any other standard relating to limitrd use of voltage ranges used only for control circuits. Then Tony Harrison took over from him, and he seemed to knpw his stuff as well.

I am in the process of re applying for membership with the niccy, and will be intersting if they snag 400v + control voltage?

Have a browse at this Rockwell have simplified it and generalised it but I cant give a definite directive as its covered by category and risk assessment as to the nature of the control voltages etc also a lot of machinery may come under its own specialised EN codes of practice.http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/rm/shb900-rm001_-en-p.pdf It also gives relevant EN - code references throughout the PDF that may apply to work you encounter. The list is endless and im not at home to pull out any particular code but hope it highlights what you need to do when repairing or upgrading machinery....

 

[KAS1]

I used to hate to see / work on 415v control circuits especially remote stop/start stations, feel much happier with 24v or 110v control circuits much safer IMO, seen people fault finding on live remote stop/starts with a multi meter and reading 220v to earth on most of the terminals and getting really confused not even thinking that 400/415volts were present lol

 

[Darkwood]

I used to hate to see / work on 415v control circuits especially remote stop/start stations, feel much happier with 24v or 110v control circuits much safer IMO, seen people fault finding on live remote stop/starts with a multi meter and reading 220v to earth on most of the terminals and getting really confused not even thinking that 400/415volts were present lol

Its no easier at 24dc if negative hasn't been grounded... can get allsorts of confusing conflicting readings if your new to it.

 

[silva.foxx]

Learned ex-ridgetile rider

Here's one reg for you EN 60204-1:2006+A1:2008 Electrical equipment of Industrial machines.

"9.1.2 Control circuit voltages
The nominal value of the control voltage shall be consistent with the correct operation of the control circuit. The nominal voltage shall not exceed 277 V when supplied from a transformer."

EN 60204 also specifies that all but very simple control circuits should be supplied from a transformer or isolated DC PSU.

Line - neutral 230V or line - line 400V control voltage can be used where there is only one contactor with no control functions outside its immediate enclosure. (E.g. a simple individual enclosed starter... no external stop/start pushbutton stations)

http://infoplc.net/files/documentacion/seguridad_normativa/infoplc_net_200941458485281.pdf

Whether it is relevant to churches or car hoists is not my concern, but as Darkwood and NBP have guided you toward... repairing a control system by replacing a component like for like on whatever voltage you like is fine as long as it is to original spec... but modifying a control system means you need to fall in line with the relevant standards.

It's also a bit pathetic to say that everything at or above 400vac is law breaking... you may want to re-read your opening rants and tone down your input as it reads un-necessarily aggressive. Be polite, positive and professional to keep it a good place for healthy debate and fun.

.

 

[Knobhead]

Any ungrounded system will cause confusion. Especially when you get an earth fault on the supposed live line.

 

[Darkwood]

Cheers for the pdf Silva..... I had earlier referenced where to find the relevant machine safety standards but wasn't in a position to look up the specific blurb as im working away, you saved me a job when I return home

 

[Engineer54]

Cheers for the pdf Silva..... I had earlier referenced where to find the relevant machine safety standards but wasn't in a position to look up the specific blurb as im working away, you saved me a job when I return home

I am getting the impression you'll still be just bashing your head up against a brick wall here mate!! ...lol!!

 

[chilliwilly]

Learned ex-ridgetile rider

Here's one reg for you EN 60204-1:2006+A1:2008 Electrical equipment of Industrial machines.

"9.1.2 Control circuit voltages
The nominal value of the control voltage shall be consistent with the correct operation of the control circuit. The nominal voltage shall not exceed 277 V when supplied from a transformer."

EN 60204 also specifies that all but very simple control circuits should be supplied from a transformer or isolated DC PSU.

Line - neutral 230V or line - line 400V control voltage can be used where there is only one contactor with no control functions outside its immediate enclosure. (E.g. a simple individual enclosed starter... no external stop/start pushbutton stations)

http://infoplc.net/files/documentacion/seguridad_normativa/infoplc_net_200941458485281.pdf

Whether it is relevant to churches or car hoists is not my concern, but as Darkwood and NBP have guided you toward... repairing a control system by replacing a component like for like on whatever voltage you like is fine as long as it is to original spec... but modifying a control system means you need to fall in line with the relevant standards.

It's also a bit pathetic to say that everything at or above 400vac is law breaking... you may want to re-read your opening rants and tone down your input as it reads un-necessarily aggressive. Be polite, positive and professional to keep it a good place for healthy debate and fun.

.

Thank you for the link, I will read and consider what it states, I am not intending to be aggressive, I am replying to the same egregious tones as the other abrupt posters.

There's only you an darkwood that have shown that you are gents by offering advice and support, and not like the cocky know it all, "that's a fact because I say so because I'm self proffessed" attidudes from some of them on here.

At the end of the day if someone stands on my toes, I will stand on theirs.

In the meantime thank you again for the link.

 

[Knobhead]

Read and consider would indicate you don’t intend to take on board what you have been told. That decision is yours.
Now think on you’re opinions and actions if things go wrong.
You’re attitude to safety is now a matter of record due to this site. You no longer have the recourse of ignorance of the law as a defence.

Sleep well dear child. The demons of the night are yet to wake and haunt you’re dreams. Sleep well.

 

[chilliwilly]

Read and consider would indicate you don’t intend to take on board what you have been told. That decision is yours.
Now think on you’re opinions and actions if things go wrong.[/SI
You’re attitude to safety is now a matter of record due to this site. You no longer have the recourse of ignorance of the law as a defence.



Sleep well dear child. The demons of the night are yet to wake and haunt you’re dreams. Sleep well.

See what I mean?

 

[KAS1]

Not so dangerous though lol

Its no easier at 24dc if negative hasn't been grounded... can get allsorts of confusing conflicting readings if your new to it.